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Digenis
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Topic: Pontian Greek Dialect Posted: 31-May-2006 at 16:49 |
The dialect of the Pontus region (NE Asia Minor) This dialect,with really many ancient greek's language elements surviving in her, is spoken in Greece -wherever the pontic people live. People who spoke it are bilingual(predominately speak modern Greek,except the latest pontians arrived in Greeks during the '90s from ex USSR) The amazing thing is that there are still people in Pontos (today NE Turkey) ,who still speak "Pontiaka"-they call it "Rumja"="Roman"="medieval Greek". They stayed in Turkey,not following their co-patriots in Greece,because of their different religion (they have become muslims) One of them Vahit Tursun,realized the origin of his mother tongue after much searching. He has opened a simple site about his village "Ocena" ,in which he gives a taste of his language... http://www.ocena.info/
Edited by Digenis - 31-May-2006 at 16:58
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akritas
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Posted: 31-May-2006 at 17:17 |
Omer Asan, Pontiac-speaking writer from Turkey and a guide to the Pontian culture wrote a book with title The Civilization of the Pontos:
A quote from interivew in how Omer Asan start the seeking via the Pontiac dialect:
"You often refer to the question, "Who am I" to define the motives for specific research Did your personal search play a decisive part?"
Omar Hasan continue .....
....... Because in the village in town, at school, they taught us that we were Turks. In the neighborhood, at school, at work we spoke Turkish . But at home, in the village, my grandfather, my grandmother, everyone in the family spoke to each other in the language we called "Romaika". So what were we, "Romioi" or Turks? Now we speak Turkish.
In my village the old people speak Romaika, but they are the last to use the language. The coming generations will not be able to bear it and learn it. Let's say that we have agreed, as far as the present is concerned: We speak Turkish, therefore we are Turkish. But who were we until now, what happened to make us become Turks? By asking "Who am I?" I plunged into the unknown. I had to find the answer to this question at any cost. And that is how this adventure began.
Also the book tamama TAMAMA, PONTUS'UN YITIK KIZI is a known book , has intesting thinks for the Pontian dialect. Actually is a true story.
Edited by akritas - 31-May-2006 at 17:22
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Digenis
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Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 17:10 |
I heard that the book was forbidden for some years and there was a trial with accusation of "try of splitting Turkey" ...Sad things for some people who only search for the culture of their grandfathers...
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akritas
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Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 17:17 |
Yes it's true as about the trial. But finally all the accusations felt under of cource the "monitor" of the Human Watch Rights. And Omer Asan say that he is aTurk, with Pontian roots and mother tongue
Edited by akritas - 01-Jun-2006 at 17:18
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The Hidden Face
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Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 00:34 |
I visited the web site ocena.info and found this video:
http://www.ocena.info/videodes/albums/videodes/parakathe_1.wmv
I am wondering what the subject of that video is. The people in the video look very happy and full of life.
By the way, Digenis, I hope that with this thread we learn something
new, everybody knows the minority policy of Turkey and unfortunately,
Pontians aren't exception. In this thread, I am more interested in
Pontian culture, language and people rather than Turkey's politics, at
which I am good enough, like most of us.
Best regards.
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Digenis
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Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 16:26 |
Originally posted by The Hidden Face
By the way, Digenis, I hope that with this thread we learn something
new, everybody knows the minority policy of Turkey and unfortunately,
Pontians aren't exception. In this thread, I am more interested in
Pontian culture, language and people rather than Turkey's politics, at
which I am good enough, like most of us.
Best regards.
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I hope we have pontian forumers. In fact Pontian Greeks,are almost fiery with their unique culture and language. When the vast majority of descendants of other refugees from Asia Minor to Greece[after Lauseanne(1923)] are now fully assimilated, Pontians (although speak modern Greek ,and don;t differ much from the other Greeks), are very proud of their tradition-Even young people can speak their dialect (unlike the numerous other greek dialects). So ,if there is at least one Pontian,this thread will go on
Edited by Digenis - 02-Jun-2006 at 16:28
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Kotsos
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Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 17:07 |
I'd go for "integration" instead of assimilation, since the genes were more or less similar, inherited by common ancestors. All the parts joined the same body, doxeio, to say it in "Greeklish" The only who never integrate are those who create a ghetto. about the Pontian muslims.. i've seen some photos of them in a recent report and they were drinking cofees under Kemal's photo.. It seemed weird considering that he's the man who gave the orders to persecute their brothers, who only differed in religion
Edited by Kotsos - 02-Jun-2006 at 18:09
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nje faqe nje fare
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kotumeyil
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Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 19:20 |
There's nothnig weird, because their ancestors were the followers of Kemal. It was a war between Muslims vs. Christians, not Turks vs. Greeks.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 11:41 |
My mother said me, she firstly spoken a langauge we named Rumca(half turkish- half greek), she can understand some words of greek langauge.(very very limited), but I am sure she have no sypmaty for their brothers, who only differed in religion.
As kotummeyil said, It was a war between Muslims vs. Christians.
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akritas
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Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 11:48 |
As I see Mortaza you have some Pontian roots
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Mortaza
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Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 12:16 |
maybe, It is only a joke, to call each other as greek. My mother says, they lived with greeks before population exchange, so they know some greek words. after all langauge she talk is half-turkish half-greek. But well, maybe I have some greek ancestors too. can I call themself great MURTAZA.
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Leonidas
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 06:35 |
ella, mortazalos (DayI also has partial muslim greek roots) looks like we are cousins after all..
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Leonidas
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 07:29 |
I have some relevent material on the Pontic (and others) dialect, I think i should contribute it to this thread. "Pontic (Athanasiadis 1977; Dawkins 1931; Dawkins 1937; Drettas 1997; Ikonomidis 1958 [1940]; Papadopoulos 1955b; Papadopoulos 1961) refers to Greek dialects formerly spoken on the southern shores of the Black Sea (Pontus); it is still spoken there, around Ophis [Of], by the Muslim Pontians not subject to the 1922 population exchanges (Mackridge 1987). Pontic was spoken in isolated pockets in the western part of the Pontus, from Inepolis [Inebolu] to Oinoe [nye], and in a continuous region from Oinoe to Ophis. Itwas also spoken in Pontian mining colonies further inland (as seen, Pharasa has been considered an erstwhile mining colony), and in isolated pockets near the Caucasus, such as Batumi and Kars. Pontic is also spoken on the northern shores of the Black Sea, in southern Russia, Abkhazia, Georgia, and the Ukraine, particularly around Rostov-na- Donu (Semenov 1935); the Pontic speakers are known to have emigrated from Asia Minor in xviii and xixAD (Dawkins 1937:1718). Many of the Northern Pontic speakers were resettled during Stalinist rule to Kazakhstan; following the collapse of the Soviet Union, they are resettling in Greece." LinkFrom what i read, it split from the main body (as other archiac forms did) around the 10-11 century but that source says the 14th century. It has been suggested that it has/had three seperate subdivisions. basically Western > Eastern and hinterland. Cappodicain was seperate dialect and more isolated (than pointiac) from what was spoken in the aegean The Hidden Face i found this source via wiki, it reads well
Edited by Leonidas - 06-Jun-2006 at 07:30
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DayI
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 12:47 |
Mine isnt Pontian but from western, aegan side of Turkey i guess. They where deported (by the greek army) to somewhere ankara, but couldnt because the suprise atack of the Turkish army in Afyon like i told somewhere else. My grandmother whas muslim and her family too, her name whas Sultan and they where actually from somewhere in Izmit.
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akritas
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 13:20 |
DayI the name of Sultan(a) was common for the Greek women in Ionia and Constantinople. This name mentioned also in many Greek books and specially those that written from Dido Sotiriou,known Greek writer.
Some Pontian phrases
Ντέ φτάς - Τι κάνεις - How are you Ντο ίνετε - Τι γίνετε - What's happening Καλατσέβω Ποντιακά - Μιλάω Ποντιακά - I speak Pontian Πίος είσαι - Ποιος είσαι - Who are you Λελέβω σε - Σε λατρεύω - I adore you Κόρτσοπον τίνος εισαι - κορίτσι πιάνου είσαι - Whose girl are you φίγον απ' ατουκά - φύγε από εκεί - Move from there τιδέν κι γρικό - τίποτα δεν καταλαβαίνω - I do not understand anything χάσον ατα ντο κσέρτς - Ξέχασε αυτά που ξέρεις - Forget what you know Τ' όνομαμ εν ... - Το όνομα μου είναι ... - my name is ... Άτο τεμόν εν - Αυτό δικό μου είναι - This is mine Άτο τεσόν εν - Αυτό δικό σου είναι - This is yours Πίσον τι δουλίας - Κάνε την δουλειά σου - Do your work ουλ ενέσπαλα - όλα τα ξέχασα - I forgot everything δέβα απές - πάνε μέσα - go inside έσιρα το άφκα - το έριξα κάτω - i dropped it on the ground τα μαλίαμ έσπριναν - άσπρισαν τα μαλλιά μου - my hair has turned white Ατόρα ντό α φτάμε - Τώρα τι θα κάνουμε - What do we do now κλόσκουμε σο σπίτ - γυρνάω στο σπίτι - I'm going home
Edited by akritas - 06-Jun-2006 at 13:21
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kotumeyil
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 16:15 |
In these examples, the Pontian dialect and the mainland Greek seems very different.
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akritas
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 16:49 |
Although Greeks regard Pontic as a dialect of Greek, Pontic and Standard Greek are mostly mutually incomprehensible, both because they developed independently for almost two millennia, and because of the influence of Ibero-Caucasian languages on Pontic in the middle ages. (For instance, Pontic replaces gender distinctions in its adjectives with a strict animacy distinction, alien to both Greek and Turkish.)
- Example 1: Pontic en (is), Ancient Greek esti, Koine idiomatic form enesti, Biblical form eni, Modern Greek ine
- Example 2: Pontic temeteron (ours), Ancient Greek to(n) hemeteron, Modern Greek to(n) * mas
- Example 3: Pontic diminutive pedhin (little child), Ancient Greek paidion, Modern Greek pedhi
- Example 4 (combining 2 and 3): Pontic temeteron to pedin (our little child), Ancient Greek/Koine to hemeteron paidion, Modern Greek to pedi mas
source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_language
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Mortaza
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 16:55 |
akritas, can you write that pontus phrases with latin alphabet? I am curious whether I can understand some of that words or not.
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akritas
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 16:58 |
Of course Mortaza, but tommorow because is late now
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akritas
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Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 10:36 |
Mortaza the Pontian phrases in the Latin form
Ντέ φτάς De ftas - How are you Ντο ίνετε Do ginete - What's happening Καλατσέβω Ποντιακά Kalatsevo Pontiaka - I speak Pontian Πίος είσαι Pios eisai - Who are you Λελέβω σε Lelevo se - I adore you Κόρτσοπον τίνος εισαι Kortsopon tinos eisai - Whose girl are you φίγον απ' ατουκά Fegon apo atouka - Move from there τιδέν κι γρικό tiden ki griko - I do not understand anything χάσον ατα ντο κσέρτς hason ata nto kserts- Forget what you know Τ' όνομαμ εν ... To onomam en ... - my name is ... Άτο τεμόν εν Ato temon en- This is mine Άτο τεσόν εν Ato teson en - This is yours Πίσον τι δουλίας Peson ti doulias- Do your work ουλ ενέσπαλα Oul enespala - I forgot everything δέβα απές deva apes- go inside έσιρα το άφκα esira to afka - i dropped it on the ground τα μαλίαμ έσπριναν ta malliam esprinan - my hair has turned white Ατόρα ντό α φτάμε Atora nto a ftame - What do we do now κλόσκουμε σο σπίτ kloskoume so spitι - I'm going home
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