Tatars & caucasus

Originally posted by gok_toruk Thanks for the information. I was just wondering about its similarity with the name 'Turkmen'.

Well, Tangriberdi, Terekeme also appears in Iranian Texts when then call (not exclusively, but mostly) Turkmens as 'Tarakome'. Anyhow, you know, 'Terekeme' is not valid in Turkmens' tongue.

Meskhetian Turks are the former Muslim inhabitants of Meskheti (Georgia), along the border with Turkey. They were deported to Central Asia in 1944 by Josef Stalin and settled within Kazakstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Uzbekistan. Today they are dispersed over a number of other countries of the former Soviet Union. Majority (more than 80%) of Meskhetian Turks are ethnic Turks (Yerli (Turkish-speaking agriculturalists) and Terekeme (Azerbaijani-speaking pastoralists) and Kurds and Hamshenis, minority (about 20%) - descendants of indigenous Georgians who became Muslim in the 17th-18th centuries. Estimated population of Meskhetian Turks is around 300,000. They are known as Ahıska T�rkleri (Akhaltsikhe Turks) in Turkey.

so how do i know if i'm terekeme or yerli I think I'm yerli

Tatar's origin is still very obscure. Generally the original Tatars (Tartar) were considered to be Mongols tribe. They were said to be killed totally (except females and children), and annexed to the Chengishan Mongols. Chengishan Mongols called themselves Tartar, that's why the people in the Mongol hords were termed generally as Tartars. Qubiley is the one who first used the term Mongol (from Mengwu shiwei) for the Mongols.

There are many diverse theories on the origins of the 'Tartar'. Latin's called them Tartarus. This name should not be confused with the tribes that rivaled Cengiz Han, who were known as the 'Tatars'. There is some reference (History of Five Dynasties) the Da'dan were related to the Jurchen (Manchurian). They allied with the Sha'to Turks. Perhaps the two later evolved into Tatar.

Funny =)But your opinion isn't true

Originally posted by erkut Ata--Atata--Tatar

I need to clarify that the western terminalogy was known as Tartars. This term has eventually been borrowed and used for most any steppe dweller synonomous with the Mongols, Turko-Mongols, and Crimean Turks.

The Chinese records show TaTaEr in, pre Cengiz Han's time, were known as Tatars. (I hope I am not mistaken).

In addition, to add to this confusing quest, the Dadan were proto Tatars. Way before Cengiz's time.
    

Edited by Seko - 22-Aug-2006 at 11:43

The Manchurians started out as the ancient Shushen (Korean), then Mohe/Wuji and later became the Jurchens. Tatar were part of an Altaic speaking tribe of the Eastern Gok Turk empire. Easternmost were the Mohe who were not Altaic. More similar to Tungus. Bear with me here cause it gets confusing. The Dadan were part of the Mohe tribes. All part of the Eastern GokTurks. Eventually they went their own way. A group of Sha'to Turks allied with the Dadan. Though the Kultegin inscriptions mention the Tokuz and Otuz Tatars, I have very little information regarding their identity. Either this group itself (doubtful) or the alliance among Sah'to and Dadan later evolved into the Tatars of Cengiz's time. This group assisted the Jurchen in fighting off Mongol tribes until their eventual demise by the Khan's (Temujin) armies during the fight for mastery of Mongolia.

The last bit of information regarding the Turk-Dadan mix is one theorectical possibility. Not much to go on though.   

p.s. - Sometimes groups of peoples in Mongolia such as Temujin's Mongols were described as being part of a Tatar confederacy in the eastern zones before their rebellion, according to David Christian, A History of Russia, Central Asia and Mongolia, Copywright 1998. He also distinguishes between Kerait and Naiman Oghuz as being within the western zones of Mongolia that were not as much Tatar as they were Turkic. To the North were the Merkits.

    
    
    
    
    
    
    

Edited by Seko - 22-Aug-2006 at 15:28

Tartaros was described here by Yiannis. It is Greek for the underworld.
    http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=579&PN=1

Edited by Seko - 24-Aug-2006 at 09:24