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BEST WARSHIP OF THE WORLD
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Posts: 1174 		  Quote babyblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: BEST WARSHIP OF THE WORLD
    Posted: 20-May-2006 at 12:41
Here...the beauty of China's next generation FFG...
 
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aghart View Drop Down
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Posts: 232 		  Quote aghart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2006 at 13:23
We seem to going off in all directions here, the thread title is not the best I must admit, but as I have said before my understanding is the best warship in the world to be one of any era that made a dramatic impact as soon as it entered service and changed naval thinking, a bit like the tank changing things in land warfare.
 
I've nominated HMS Dreadnaught and given the reasons why, so rather than picking holes in other peoples choices lets here your choice of the "best" and why?


Edited by aghart - 20-May-2006 at 13:24
Former Tank Commander (Chieftain)& remember, Change is inevitable!!! except from vending machines
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2006 at 13:49
tanks like carriers were introduced at the end of ww1 but didn't revolutionized warfare until their true value was uncovered in ww2.
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Posts: 1174 		  Quote babyblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2006 at 15:11
Originally posted by aghart

We seem to going off in all directions here, the thread title is not the best I must admit, but as I have said before my understanding is the best warship in the world to be one of any era that made a dramatic impact as soon as it entered service and changed naval thinking, a bit like the tank changing things in land warfare.
 
I've nominated HMS Dreadnaught and given the reasons why, so rather than picking holes in other peoples choices lets here your choice of the "best" and why?
   ah come on...let's not be so serious on a saturday night shall we? We all have our own "best" in our hearts...it may be the most powerful, the biggest, the ugliest, the most revolutionary in your case or the most sexy in my case.
   After my explaination, does it not make you think the title of this thread is relevant after all?


Edited by babyblue - 20-May-2006 at 15:13
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Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 17:17

Too much!!!

I can't get an image of the "Mustu" in here.
Coluld somebody show it's superstructures for me, please!
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 14:23
you mean the Mutsu?
 
 
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Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 14:39
Originally posted by Temujin

you mean the Mutsu?
 
 
 
That's her, thank you!  Sorry, I mispelled her name in my last postEmbarrassed.
 
Check those superstructures!!! Some say that Ise and Yamashiro look better, but my personal opinion is that Mutsu looks better. Anyway it's just about taste.
 
Thank you again, Temujin, for those pictures.
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Posts: 62 		  Quote Giordano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 12:44

My favourite WWII battleship is Bismarck...


Edited by Giordano - 05-Jun-2006 at 12:48
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Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 17:48
Originally posted by Giordano


My favourite WWII battleship is Bismarck...
The sub on it's right looks betterWink!
Prinz Eugen looks about the same and it was a far better shipTongue!


Edited by Cezar - 05-Jun-2006 at 18:18
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Posts: 4221 		  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 20:10
All the battleships are cool, but the best warship(s) were the 21 Essex and Ticonderoga Class aircraft carriers of WW II.  These two classes were virtually identical and were the backbone of the USN in the Pacific war.
 
 
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Posts: 62 		  Quote Giordano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 09:22
Originally posted by Cezar

Originally posted by Giordano


My favourite WWII battleship is Bismarck...
The sub on it's right looks betterWink!
Prinz Eugen looks about the same and it was a far better shipTongue!


Prince Eugen is a heavy cruiser,Bismarck has a sister named as Tirpitz.
Prince Eugen is 15 000 tons,Bismarck is 41 700 tons.
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Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 11:51

Prinz Eugen looks almost identical with the Bismarck class.

I know there is a certain difference between a heavy cruiser and a battleship.
Prinz was a better ship because it had a far more advanced fire control system than the Bismarck. And the guns were better. The German 15"/380mm guns where not that good.
There are some legends that state that Hood was sunk by Prinz, not by Bismarck. The 8" / 203mm guns she carried had excellent balistics and Hood's top armour could have been penetrated by those shells.
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Posts: 62 		  Quote Giordano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 12:19
ok,dude,what is the source about Prince Eugen's guns better than Bismarck?
I wanna read it,i wonder ,really...And pls add about some legends ;)
I don't say ,you're wrong!I wanna learn it,only...
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Posts: 1174 		  Quote babyblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 13:01
Originally posted by Cezar

Prinz Eugen looks almost identical with the Bismarck class.

I know there is a certain difference between a heavy cruiser and a battleship.
Prinz was a better ship because it had a far more advanced fire control system than the Bismarck. And the guns were better. The German 15"/380mm guns where not that good.
There are some legends that state that Hood was sunk by Prinz, not by Bismarck. The 8" / 203mm guns she carried had excellent balistics and Hood's top armour could have been penetrated by those shells.
 
    they look similar I'll give you that...but the Prinz Eugen was in no way a better ship than the Bismark. The fact that one's a battleship and the other one's a heavy cruiser pretty much sums it up...hello??? the Prinz Eugen was Bismark's escort...?
     Yeah the hood's top armour could have been penetrated by the shells Prinz Eugen's 20.3cm (8") SK.C/34 in Drehturm T.L/C/34, but it was sunk by the BismarkSleepy
     Also been able to penetrate the top armour of a warship is not great achievement...'cause it's not even the thickest...
 
   Edit: how come my text turned out red?


Edited by babyblue - 06-Jun-2006 at 13:04
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Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 18:46
Originally posted by Giordano

ok,dude,what is the source about Prince Eugen's guns better than Bismarck?
I wanna read it,i wonder ,really...And pls add about some legends ;)
I don't say ,you're wrong!I wanna learn it,only...
 
No problem for these soruces, just give me 5-8 days. It's a book, not a web source.
Listen, if you think of sheer power it's not that Prinz could have outgunned Bismarck, I just said that the 203 had better ballistics than the 380. 
To get out of this I'll say that the 11'/280's of Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were far better guns than the 203's or the 380's. Even the range was superior to the 14'/15' of the RN.
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 13:41
actually the Scharnhorst sunk a carrier, an old one though, but still...
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Posts: 62 		  Quote Giordano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 15:26
Originally posted by Cezar

Originally posted by Giordano

ok,dude,what is the source about Prince Eugen's guns better than Bismarck?
I wanna read it,i wonder ,really...And pls add about some legends ;)
I don't say ,you're wrong!I wanna learn it,only...
 
No problem for these soruces, just give me 5-8 days. It's a book, not a web source.
Listen, if you think of sheer power it's not that Prinz could have outgunned Bismarck, I just said that the 203 had better ballistics than the 380. 
To get out of this I'll say that the 11'/280's of Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were far better guns than the 203's or the 380's. Even the range was superior to the 14'/15' of the RN.


Friend,i wrote that i don't say ,you're wrong!Tell the source,i wanna read it,if there isn't on internet,no problem...Why do you turn it a problem?
Main guns quality or quantity is single match point for this vessels?I wonder that too,These are battle platforms,ships not only swimming guns...If i accept that guns of Prinz better,this means Prinz better completely than Bismarck?
According to me,if you 're right,this shows this reality only:
Prinz's main guns better than Bismarck...
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Cezar View Drop Down
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Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 16:13
Originally posted by Giordano

Originally posted by Cezar

Originally posted by Giordano

ok,dude,what is the source about Prince Eugen's guns better than Bismarck?
I wanna read it,i wonder ,really...And pls add about some legends ;)
I don't say ,you're wrong!I wanna learn it,only...
 
No problem for these soruces, just give me 5-8 days. It's a book, not a web source.
Listen, if you think of sheer power it's not that Prinz could have outgunned Bismarck, I just said that the 203 had better ballistics than the 380. 
To get out of this I'll say that the 11'/280's of Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were far better guns than the 203's or the 380's. Even the range was superior to the 14'/15' of the RN.


Friend,i wrote that i don't say ,you're wrong!Tell the source,i wanna read it,if there isn't on internet,no problem...Why do you turn it a problem?
Main guns quality or quantity is single match point for this vessels?I wonder that too,These are battle platforms,ships not only swimming guns...If i accept that guns of Prinz better,this means Prinz better completely than Bismarck?
According to me,if you 're right,this shows this reality only:
Prinz's main guns better than Bismarck...
It's a problem for me, I must take a 120 km trip to get that book. I wrote that it is considered a legend, not a fact, you will also find it mentioned in Douglas Reeman's novel "The Iron Pirate".
Yes the 203 was a better gun than the 380. Better is not just about power. I didn't surf the net for the characteristics of these guns I have a study on guns used in WWII. It's a Romanian Military Academy book and I "got" one of it when I was in the army. The study is very technical and I'm afraid that I don't have a scanner. Anyway, it's in Romanian, the conclusions would mean nothing to you unless you can tranlsate them.
Think of it, the German 88 is considered to be one of the best guns ever built. Also the US 5'/127mm dual purpose naval gun is considered one of the best (some think of it as simply the best) naval gun. It's upgraded version is even used nowadays.
A good description of big guns of the battleships can be found on the site I've mentioned in my first post here - www.combinedfleet.com.
As I've mentioned in my previous post it was not just about guns. Prinz had also better fire control and damage control. And she survived the war! Oh, of course, she never sunk another shipConfused.
This site is partially under construction: www.prinzeugen.com


Edited by Cezar - 07-Jun-2006 at 16:15
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Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 16:51
Originally posted by Temujin

actually the Scharnhorst sunk a carrier, an old one though, but still...
Schranhorst and Gneisenau - The terrible duo:
  • Though considered battleships I still think of them as battlecruisers. They had a displacement of 35.000 tons.
  • Original Scharnhorst and Gneisenau - armored cruisers of WWI. Under the command of adm. Graf von Spee they sunk the armored RN cruisers Good Hope and Monmouth  in the battle of Coronel (Nov. 1st 1914 - near the coast of Chile). Sunk by the RN Battlecruisers Infelxible and Invincible in the battle of Falklands (Dec. 8th 1914). Who were Scharnhorst and Gneisenau I don't really know, I think they were some important prussian statemen.
  • It seems that the USN was inspired by their design when building the Alaska class battlecruisers.
  • The carrier they sunk was Glorious (June 8th 1940). And her escort DD Ardent and Acasta, though the later scored one torpedo hit on Scharnhorst.
  • Raiding party in the Atlantic started on the 23rd of January 1941. 22 ships sunk (115.622 tons total).
  • Feb. 11th 1942 - operation "Cerberus" a.k.a "Channel Dash". Scharnhorst and Gneisenau damaged from mines. Gneisenau never sailed after that.
  • Sep. 8th 1943. Bombardment on Spitzbergen - Tirpitz was there and was performing her only use of the 380's, except for AA fire.
  • Dec. 26th 1943 Battle of Cape North - Scharnhorst sunk by RN BB Duke of York. Out of a complement of 1900 only 76 were saved.
    • Recorded hits:
      • around 13.00 two hits of 208 on RN CA Norfolk - one turret down, one radar off
      • 16.50 CA Belfast fires illumination shells. DoY opens fire and until 18.20 Scharnhorst has 2 280 turrets and one 150 destroyed.
      • 18.20 a salvo of 356 mm pentrats into boiler room nr.1 Ships speed reduced. RN destroyers can get closer.
      • 18.24 DoY is hit by a salvo of 280 and cease fire. Adm. Bey sends to Hitler the message "we shall fight to our last shell"
      • Dashing bravely against the 150 sec art. RN destroyers Savage, Saumarez and Scorpion along with NN Stord score 4 torpedo hits. DoY and CL Jamaica reopen fire.
      • 19.30 sped down to 5kts. All weapons detroyed
      • 19.45 after 13 direct hits and 11 torpedoes the ship explodes.

(the description of the battle is partially translated from the "Modelism" magazine)
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Giordano View Drop Down
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Posts: 62 		  Quote Giordano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 18:18
Originally posted by Cezar

Originally posted by Giordano

Originally posted by Cezar

Originally posted by Giordano

ok,dude,what is the source about Prince Eugen's guns better than Bismarck?
I wanna read it,i wonder ,really...And pls add about some legends ;)
I don't say ,you're wrong!I wanna learn it,only...
 
No problem for these soruces, just give me 5-8 days. It's a book, not a web source.
Listen, if you think of sheer power it's not that Prinz could have outgunned Bismarck, I just said that the 203 had better ballistics than the 380. 
To get out of this I'll say that the 11'/280's of Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were far better guns than the 203's or the 380's. Even the range was superior to the 14'/15' of the RN.


Friend,i wrote that i don't say ,you're wrong!Tell the source,i wanna read it,if there isn't on internet,no problem...Why do you turn it a problem?
Main guns quality or quantity is single match point for this vessels?I wonder that too,These are battle platforms,ships not only swimming guns...If i accept that guns of Prinz better,this means Prinz better completely than Bismarck?
According to me,if you 're right,this shows this reality only:
Prinz's main guns better than Bismarck...
It's a problem for me, I must take a 120 km trip to get that book. I wrote that it is considered a legend, not a fact, you will also find it mentioned in Douglas Reeman's novel "The Iron Pirate".
Yes the 203 was a better gun than the 380. Better is not just about power. I didn't surf the net for the characteristics of these guns I have a study on guns used in WWII. It's a Romanian Military Academy book and I "got" one of it when I was in the army. The study is very technical and I'm afraid that I don't have a scanner. Anyway, it's in Romanian, the conclusions would mean nothing to you unless you can tranlsate them.
Think of it, the German 88 is considered to be one of the best guns ever built. Also the US 5'/127mm dual purpose naval gun is considered one of the best (some think of it as simply the best) naval gun. It's upgraded version is even used nowadays.
A good description of big guns of the battleships can be found on the site I've mentioned in my first post here - www.combinedfleet.com.
As I've mentioned in my previous post it was not just about guns. Prinz had also better fire control and damage control. And she survived the war! Oh, of course, she never sunk another shipConfused.
This site is partially under construction: www.prinzeugen.com


I don't want to trouble with you,i've not insisted that i was  right or you're
wrong.I really wanna learn it only if it true.And i won't want any source from you anymore because this word disturb you.
I'm looking for the truth,if you say forum format is that everyone say opinions,that's all;i will look at all posts only opinions and only impresivible not believable.
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