Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)
Mutual Intelligibility of Turkic language |
Post Reply 
|
Page <123> |
| Author |
 Share Topic Printable Version Google Delicious Digg StumbleUpon Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks reddit Facebook MySpace Newsvine Furl Topic Search  Topic Options
|
||||
Guests 
Guest 
|
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Mutual Intelligibility of Turkic languagePosted: 31-May-2006 at 07:05 |
||||
|
If there is anyone who wants to learn Turkic languages, he should definitely start with modern day Turkey Turkish. Yes it can be harder and was affected by Arabic and Farsi higly and also English and French. But all major languages were affected from others. What is Latin in English is Arabic in Turkish. Availability of Turkey Turkish is far more than Azeri or Turkmen. Anyway Kazakh and Uzbek are also highly affected by Russian. No doubt they are more pure in some occasions.
|
|||||
 |
|||||
|
steven
Immortal Guard 
Joined: 30-May-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-May-2006 at 09:43 |
||||
|
I was just stating the fact that Russian has become a lingua franca throughout much of central asia because of the Soviet Union.
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
barbar
General 
retired AE Moderator Joined: 10-Aug-2005 Location: Italy Online Status: Offline Posts: 781 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-May-2006 at 11:35 |
||||
No never. You can say it's just a dialectic difference. Like Schotish English and Wales English.
Any Turkic guy can spend three month with Qazaqs, and he can speak just fine.
Can an English guy in Germany do the same in three month? I don't think so.
Edited by barbar - 31-May-2006 at 11:44 |
|||||
|
Either make a history or become a history.
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
barbar
General
retired AE Moderator Joined: 10-Aug-2005 Location: Italy Online Status: Offline Posts: 781 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-May-2006 at 11:42 |
||||
It's amazing, we use all of the above words in Uyghur very frequently. Just a little different:
Erinmek: be lazy
黶mek: hit with horns
Tapmaq:find
QaytmaQ: return
Saylimak: elect( not choose)
Yumaq: wash
Yuyunmaq:bathe
Which words do you use instead? Edited by barbar - 31-May-2006 at 11:47 |
|||||
|
Either make a history or become a history.
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Tangriberdi
Earl 
Joined: 03-Aug-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-May-2006 at 16:33 |
||||
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
gok_toruk
Arch Duke 
9 Oghuz Joined: 28-Apr-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1831 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 04:02 |
||||
|
Well, ode1299, let's say a foreigner wants to pick up Turkish to enter Turkic countries. First, he has to learn Istanbul Turkish. Second, to start a new course on Eastern dialects. But think of the reverse situation. If one is fluent in Uighur or any Central Asian Turkic, Istanbul Turkish will just sound an easy-to-understand dialect. |
|||||
|
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
barbar
General
retired AE Moderator Joined: 10-Aug-2005 Location: Italy Online Status: Offline Posts: 781 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 02:31 |
||||
No wonder, Turkey Turkish is a little difficult for us to understand.
Actually, we still use all of them, only for the following two, we have more words with slight difference in meaning.
Tapmaq is the result for looking for something (finding). Like:
Taptingizmu? (have you found?) Tapalidingizmu? (have you managed to find)
We use izlimek for looking for. like:
Nime izlewatisiz? (what are you looking for?)
Qaytmaq is returning. Like:
Qanchelerde oyge qaytisiz? ( At about what time will you return home?)
Yanmaq is returning with cancelation or just cancelling. Like:
Emdi yansingiz, qandaq bolidu? (How come it is ok, if you return now?)
Edited by barbar - 04-Jun-2006 at 03:21 |
|||||
|
Either make a history or become a history.
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Tangriberdi
Earl
Joined: 03-Aug-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 20:02 |
||||
Standard Turkish (Anatolian is of course difficult, but I wish you could hear local dialects spoken in Anatolia. And you could see how common words are still preserved in these Anatolian Turkish dialects.
Izlemek means to follow or to go after someone in the first meaning or to watch and to see by eyes in the second meaning given by standard Istanbulite Turkish.
But in local dialects it means to follow a path or a trace. Iz means trace or sign left by a foot or any heavy thing which had made progress in a certain path.
Tapmak (now becomes obsoleteand replaced by bulmak) means to find something lost after a process of looking for it. That is the same as you mention.
Bulmak means to find something the very new, unknown before, . thus its meaning is the same as to discover. But for almost 70 years it became to be used for the meanings of Tapmak and bulmak.
To look for, to seek is aramak in modern anatolian. But it comes from old verb qaramaq which means to look at something. In different Anatolian sources we also find the verb aqtarmaq instead of aramak.
Aqtarmaq, now completely obsolte is to look for
(q-)aramaq, is look at.
But all changed. Now Anatolian Turkish is somewhat corrupt.
We lost our detailed differences in meanings. I am so sorry.
Tapmaq is the result for looking for something (finding). Like:
Taptingizmu? (have you found?) Tapalidingizmu? (have you managed to find)
We use aramak for looking for. like:
Ne ariyorsunuz? (what are you looking for?)
Dnmek is returning. Like:
Kachda eve dnersiniz? ( At about what time will you return home?)
Caymak is returning with cancelation or just cancelling. Like:
Nasıl olur da shimdi cayarsınız? (How come it is ok, if you return now?)
I love Central Asian Turkish it is almost pure and untouched.
Edited by Tangriberdi - 05-Jun-2006 at 20:03 |
|||||
|
|||||
|
barbar
General
retired AE Moderator Joined: 10-Aug-2005 Location: Italy Online Status: Offline Posts: 781 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 00:03 |
||||
|
Thanks brother for this, I leant quite about Turkish.
You are right, we use iz as a foot trace. we call a person who can track the trace as Izchi.
For discover, we have a word Bayqamaq.
U bir yengi elmintni bayqidi. (He discovered a new element.)
We use Bulimaq for robbing. Does it has any relation with Bulmaq?
Ular ezeldin kembeghellerni bulimaytti. (They never robbed poor people.)
We use Aqturmaq, for looking for something among many other things.
Saqchilar oyumni aqturiwatidu. ( The police are seeking something in my house.)
We use Qaramaq also. It has a meaning of looking at, different from Kormek, which has a meaning of seeing.
Qarang, nime digen guzel. (Look, how beautiful!)
Uni kordingizmu? (Have you seen him?)
we have a verb, Dongimek with the meaning of blaming someone for something he hasn't done. I dont' remember the English word for this, sorry. Like:
U manga dongep qoydi. (He did it himself, but he blamed me.)
Manga dongimeng! (Don't blame me, you did it.)
|
|||||
|
Either make a history or become a history.
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Tangriberdi
Earl
Joined: 03-Aug-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 10:22 |
||||
The same word izji is used in Anatolian Turkish too. Its meaning is scout, boyscout and tracker. It is the exactly same word in the same meaning.
O yeni bir elementi buldu/ keshf etdi.
Bayqamaq does not bell a ring in my mind. It should be of a root lost in ANatolian Turkish.
We have baymak, rise to wealth , rise to pleasure and then lose consciousness.
Bayındırlık: Prosperity, Wellfare , Wellbeing, Wealth, Richness
Bayılmak: to faint, to faint of pleasure, to love, to adore.
Onlar asla fakirleri soymadi
We have a verb: bulamak, roll something in something, besmear, bedaub with, besmear on.
By the way, In Anatolian Turkish, saqchi:police, armed force for public security is a word became lost in 1500s and replaced by qaragul*: watchman. Finally qaragul altering to the form karakol has changed its meaning to police station in 1800s and police became widespread via french and westernization.
*Qaragul is related to verb qaramaq
We lost qaramaq, instead we use bakmak: look at, look after and sometimes look for
Bak! Ne guzel! (Look, how beautiful!)
Onu grdnz m? (Have you seen him?)
Rather than a verb we have a phrase for the action you tell using dongimek. The phrase is suchu bashkasının zerine atmak.
Such means guilt, crime, sin
bashka means other, else
zerine means on, onto, onwards, towards to the top.
atmak means to throw , to cast, to discard
Not in Anatolian Turkish but in Ottoman Turkish another phrase in the same meaning used to be used: Gunahi zgeye yklemek
Gunah:Sin
zge(archaic): the other, else
yklemek:to load
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
barbar
General
retired AE Moderator Joined: 10-Aug-2005 Location: Italy Online Status: Offline Posts: 781 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 00:18 |
||||
|
So Soymaq means robbing. In Uyghur it means taking the skin from the body of something originally.
Qoy terisini soyalamsen? (Can you take the skin of the sheep?)
U tamdin bu resimni soyuwetti. (He took the picture from the wall.)
But we use it also for killing followed this action. Such as:
Qoy soydunglarma? (I heard you have sacrificed a sheep, is it true? )
Qoy soydunglarmu? (Did you sacrifice a sheep?)
ltrmek means killing only.
Uni kim ltrgendu? ( Who might have killed him?)
Uni kim ltrdi? (Who killed him?)
We have the word qarawul, which is used for guard.
We use baqmaq also, with the meaning of looking at something with affection. A verse from a song:
Baqma, yregimge otlar yaqma. (Don't look at me like that, don't make fire for my heart.)
We also use it for looking after.
Bala baqmaq bek tes. (Looking after child is very difficult.)
Padichi (Chopan) qoy baqidu. (Shepherd looks after sheep.)
For Dngimek we also use Artip qoymaq.
Artmaq means casting as you said.
Qoymaq means putting.
Instead of zerine we use sti, stige
We say:
Gunahini bashqilargha artip qoymaq
We use atmaq for shooting.
Qush atalamsen? (can you shoot the bird?)
Yklemek is used as loading, but not in this sense. A poem for you:
Ykligin ykni ana, men tangshurulghan tulparing,
Sen chn ykleshke razi, taghnimu yelkemge men.
(Please mother, put the loads, I'm your ready to start horse,
I'm even willing to carry a mountain on my shoulder for you!)
Edited by barbar - 07-Jun-2006 at 03:04 |
|||||
|
Either make a history or become a history.
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Tangriberdi
Earl
Joined: 03-Aug-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 04:01 |
||||
In Anatolian Turkish Soymak in a second meaning is the same as in Uyghur
Elmayı soyabilir misiniz? Can you peel the apple?
We have derisini yzmek for the same process of taking the skin apart from the body, if mentioned animals or humans. To flay, to skin
Bakma yregime odlar yakma..... guzel sz Atmak can also mean to shoot as in the phrases like Silah (gun, weapon)atmak, Kurshun(Korushun in Ottoman, bullet)atmak, top(cannon) atmak, ok (arrow) atmak
I agree on the rest.
Thank you for your time. You illuminate me so much. I appreciate that.
As you see, there are some differences but neither they are trivial nor huge.
Thank you. Edited by Tangriberdi - 07-Jun-2006 at 11:33 |
|||||
|
|||||
|
DayI
Sultan 
Joined: 30-May-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2408 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 07:55 |
||||
Uni = Onu kim = kim ltrdi = ldrd? ltrgendu = lrmsh
|
|||||
|
Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
[IMG">http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg"> |
|||||
|
|||||
|
Tangriberdi
Earl
Joined: 03-Aug-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 11:38 |
||||
It is dialectal change of meaning and it is unusual change of meaning. And I think this change of meaning in ANatolia is not a widespread case for TANIMAK, to know, to recognize. It should be a local word and restricted to a very narrow area.
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
DayI
Sultan
Joined: 30-May-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2408 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 15:47 |
||||
|
Tangriberdi we do use "TANI" as not something to know or to recognize, it is something to looking after it. Also we use "esh*tlik" for entrance of a house, like "esh*tlik'te pabularini cikar da gel", pabuc go's for shoe's. I think the word "TANI" is used widely here in Afyon.
|
|||||
|
Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
[IMG">http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg"> |
|||||
|
|||||
|
Tangriberdi
Earl
Joined: 03-Aug-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 17:23 |
||||
Since the very beginning times of recorded history of Turkic languagae, tanImak has been used in the meaning of knowing and recognizing. That is why tanISHmak means to know each other , to be acquainted with each other, to begin to recognize each other.
As a noun tanI is a recently made up from the verb TanImak in order to replace Arabic teshhis, diagnosis. TanI as a noun means diagnosis, that is knowing a disease and recognizing it. What u mention should be a local irregular use of this word.
And Esh*tlik is definitely a corrupt form of eshik , trashold.
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
barbar
General
retired AE Moderator Joined: 10-Aug-2005 Location: Italy Online Status: Offline Posts: 781 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 22:31 |
||||
For peeling the fruits, we also use aqlimaq.
Alma aqlap bereymu? (Shall I peel an apple?)
Bermek is giving.
We have another word for peeling, Shilimaq, which is used for abstract action of peeling. Shilip yemek, exploit to earn.
Bu bay kembeghellerni shilip yeytti. (This rich man used to exploit poor people.)
It also has a meaning of saying something nice to get some benifit,
Meni undaq shilimang. ( Don't say nice words for getting something from me)
Shilamchi is someone who is good at this.
In Uyghur, we use Miltiq, Tapancha, Nagan for guns. (some loan words)
For bullet, we use Oq.
For arrow we use Oqya. (Ya or Kerich is the part to cast the arrow)
The verb for all of them is atmaq.
Interestingly, we also use a slang: Qash atmaq. it has a meaning of sending some message with eyebrows.
U manga qash etiwatidu.
For aiming, we use Chenlemek, or Qellimek.
Chenlep baqe. (Try to aim, let's see)
The same appreciation from me.
Edited by barbar - 07-Jun-2006 at 22:38 |
|||||
|
Either make a history or become a history.
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
gok_toruk
Arch Duke
9 Oghuz Joined: 28-Apr-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1831 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jun-2006 at 14:33 |
||||
|
Uyghur 'aqturmaq' is Turkmen 'aqtarmaq'. 'Qaramaq' is a later development and is taken from the word 'qaray' or simply 'qara' which means 'face; form'. 'dongemek' is Turkmen 'tangmaq' which is 'to tie' and is used the way you did.
Many is said as 'kop, kegen (ken), choq, qatiq' and a few more words.
Uyghur 'etwatidu' is Turkmen 'etiwitti'; but used sometimes and considered a special dialect.
'atmaq' is different from 'apmaq' or 'awmaq'. The latter means 'hunt' while 'atmaq' is 'to shoot' (anything).
Uyghur 'tes' is Turkmen 'ters' which means 'reverse'; but is used in the same way you did. There's also a similar Turkmen word 'tas' which means 'all of a sudden; to be about to': 'tas towilaqayti' (it was about to break down all of a sudden).
Different forms of 'ermek' are:
e(r)mes:is not, are not
e(r)ken: is, are
e(r)ti (is used as 'iti' also): was, were
Saying negative forms are possible in different ways:
(o) kitmegen: (he is) the one who hasen't gone
(o) kitken degil (he is) not the one who has gone.
Note 'degil' makes negative.
I was wondering if Uyghur used such a word.
There's also a differene between 'ustunden' and 'uzerinden'. See:
'iki mitir bashimning ustunden kechti': it passed two meters above my head (note there's a distance).
'barmaqlarimning uzerinden aqqan kechti': 'it streamed over my fingers' (it touched my fingers'.
The same is for 'ashaq' and 'etek':
'oturqichning ashaqin da': 'under the table' (distance)
'ayaqimnig etekin te': 'under my foot' (you stepped it).
Edited by gok_toruk - 08-Jun-2006 at 14:38 |
|||||
|
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Tangriberdi
Earl
Joined: 03-Aug-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jun-2006 at 15:56 |
||||
Aqlimaq can be aklamak in Anatolian Turkish but it means to acquit or to exculpate in legal contexts, and to whiten, to brighten, or to make (white=clean)= free from guilt in the minds of other people.
Bermek is vermek in ANatolian Turkish.
But neither I heard of other words you refer to nor read them in any book. I will look into my all dicitonaries, word by word if necessary, checking every and each reference.
we have tufek, tabancha for guns silah is a arabic word and a generic word for all kinds of weapons.
Silah replaced yaraq in 18th century and yaraq began to mean a penis, in a very vulgar emphasis.
I checked my source books. (Old Anatolian Turkish, Anatolian Seljukid period):Korashun>(Middle Anatolian Turkish, Ottoman period):Korushun>(Late Ottoman Period and on)Kurshun is initially a metal name in Anatolian Turkish That metal is lead. Later it began to mean bullet, because bullet was made of lead. Guess what was used before this change. Let me say: Oq both for arrow and bullet.
Thanks for all. This thank goes to barbar.
And THANK YOU!!!! And this Thank goes to Gok Trk for its participation Edited by Tangriberdi - 08-Jun-2006 at 15:58 |
|||||
|
|||||
|
barbar
General
retired AE Moderator Joined: 10-Aug-2005 Location: Italy Online Status: Offline Posts: 781 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jun-2006 at 23:07 |
||||
For face we use yz.
We use Tangmaq also, but it has a little different meaning from Dngemek.
Ishingizni manga tangmange! ( Could you please not to give your work to me)
Original meaning is tieing.
Ykleringizni tangdingizmu? (Did you tie up your luggages?)
We use Owlamaq for hunting.
Actually we use more frequently Qeyin for difficult.
Qeyinana is mother in law, you know they are very difficult.
Tas is used as you discribed.
Tas qaldim, yeqilip chshkili. (I was about to be fallen down)
We use sti and asti for on and under.
Yuqirisi and Tweni for over and below.
|
|||||
|
Either make a history or become a history.
|
|||||
|
|||||
.i understand only azeri and turkmen dialects..uzbek and kazaks arent clear for me|
Post Reply
|
Page <123> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz
This page was generated in 0.082 seconds.
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz
This page was generated in 0.082 seconds.
