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Mutual Intelligibility of Turkic language |
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Tobodai 
Tsar 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: Antarctica Online Status: Offline Posts: 4310 |
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 Topic: Mutual Intelligibility of Turkic languagePosted: 12-May-2006 at 17:52 |
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So, I want very badly to travel to Uzbekistan someday and return to Turkey for a longer time then I spend there. But i have a curiosity...if i were to learn Turkish as my next language learning adventure (I have one to complete next year still) would what I learned be at all useful if I were to go to Uzbekistan or Khazakstan? How much mutual intelligibility is there specifically in Uzbekistan vis-a vis Turkey.
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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
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bleda
Earl 
Suspended Joined: 07-May-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 283 |
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Posted: 12-May-2006 at 18:02 |
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turkish language is very hard to learn for example if, turkey ----->germany uzbekistan--->england Edited by bleda |
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Sherzod
Janissary 
Joined: 12-May-2006 Location: Uzbekistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 28 |
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Posted: 12-May-2006 at 18:37 |
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Nope, I recently a talked with a Turkish guy who used to do the Sandvich Grek(hmm, love it!!) in Paris. (an Uzbek talking with a Turk in Frace You should get started with Uzbek, then you can learn Turkish, cause you have to read the "Khamsa" of Alisher Navoi! |
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"Power is in fairness...!" - Amir Temur (1336-1405)
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DayI
Sultan 
Joined: 30-May-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2408 |
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Posted: 12-May-2006 at 18:50 |
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I only understand uygur, uzbek, azeri and Turkmen when they speak slowly.
Anyway tobodai if you know Turkey's Turkish you can get 30-60% of Central asian Turkish, 80-100% of Turkish that is spoken in eastern Europe (gagauz, crimean tatars), and 50-80% of middle eastern Turkish. |
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Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
[IMG">http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg"> |
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gok_toruk
Arch Duke 
9 Oghuz Joined: 28-Apr-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1831 |
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Posted: 13-May-2006 at 10:24 |
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Uzbek grammer is more complicated than Anatolian Turkish. The words also tend to be rather original; comparing to Anatolian Turkish word structure that is mostly based on modern combinations. And the accent is a bit more tough. That's why Dayi understand Uzbek when they speak slowly (hi there Dayi). Generally, it's better to pick up (any of) Central Asian Turkic (dialects); because you'll have a greater mastery of Turkic language. Anyhow, I'm sure you'll be able to express yourself and demand things you need if you're fluent in Anatolian Turkish. |
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Tobodai
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: Antarctica Online Status: Offline Posts: 4310 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-May-2006 at 21:49 |
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Okay thanks guys, maybe Ill learn it in reverse order than i intended.
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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
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kotumeyil
Chieftain 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 21-Jun-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 1494 |
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Posted: 14-May-2006 at 10:19 |
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The Eastern Anatolian dialect and the Azeri dialect is almost the same.
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[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
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barbar
General 
retired AE Moderator Joined: 10-Aug-2005 Location: Italy Online Status: Offline Posts: 781 |
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Posted: 15-May-2006 at 00:17 |
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A Qazaq friend, who can speak some Uyghur, told me that once he met a group of Turkman guys on the plain, and he thought they were Uyghurs when they spoke. When we hear Turkman, it feels like it's between Uyghur and Qazaq. We Uyghurs usually can understand Qazaq, Qyrgyz, Turkman and Azari. Uzbek is more or less the same as Uyghur. Turkey Turkish is a little difficult for us.
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Either make a history or become a history.
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Bulldog
Caliph 
Joined: 17-May-2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2800 |
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Posted: 18-May-2006 at 10:30 |
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I think from Turkmenistan westwards the language is Oghuz Turkish? can you all understand each other?
I have some Turkish friends and from seminars at the "Turks Journey of 1000 years" they went into this aswell, they said Turks in Turkey and Azerbaijan can quite easily make out and understand Uygur and Ozbek Turks but find it harder to make out the Khirghiz or Khazakh dialect?
Khazakhistan is closer than Ozbekistan and the Uygur regions what is the reason for this? is it true?
Can Turkmens and Ozbek's understand each other well? how about Azeri and Turkmen?
I found it amazing that even though there have been no attemps to create a "standardised Turkish" and you've spent thousands of years and thousands of miles apart the language is still quite mutually intellegable.
How is this possible? is it to do with the language structure or somthing its very interesting.
For example, Northern European languages originally were quite similar and European and they are so close to each other yet today we don't understand each other at all.
Are there any plans or projects to Standardise Turkic in Universities etc? for examle the Standardisation of Arabic has been very successfull, something like that could be great among the Turkic world.
Edited by Bulldog - 18-May-2006 at 10:37 |
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine |
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barbar
General
retired AE Moderator Joined: 10-Aug-2005 Location: Italy Online Status: Offline Posts: 781 |
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Posted: 18-May-2006 at 12:10 |
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Qazaq and Kyrghyz languages have quite Mongolian influence in phonetics,that's the reason, I think. They have kept more original Turkic words comparing to Uyghur or Uzbek though.
It's really a good idea to have a standardized Turkish, this will surely help to enhance the relations between these people.
BTW, Welcome to the forum Bulldog.
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Either make a history or become a history.
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Tangriberdi
Earl
Joined: 03-Aug-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
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Posted: 18-May-2006 at 19:02 |
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Turkish spoken in Turkey(I mean Standard one not the dying dialects) is the most corrupted .
Its grammar is highly damaged.
Its words of Turkic stock are used in meanings which are irrelevant to the original meaning of the words.
It has many English and French in it.
I strongly recommend you to start with Uzbek which is the most beautiful and a relatively more original Turkish language. Although I am a Turk from Turkey, I can easily say that Uzbek with its traces from Persian is the most literary one. And Kazakh is the most authentic Turkish language.
Turkmen is the original form of Anatolian Turkish.
It is in a better situation in all aspects than Turkish in Turkey.
Azeri is the halfway between the two.
Try Uzbek language. You'll like it.
Turkish languages except one in Turkey have approx. 40000 common words. They can be standardized and make one language.
Turkish in Turkey is dying . Although I am from Istanbul and Istanbulite is my native language. I think Turkish spoken in Turkey should be replaced by Turkmen, my mother's mother tongue.
Edited by Tangriberdi - 18-May-2006 at 19:07 |
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xi_tujue
Arch Duke
Atabeg Joined: 19-May-2006 Location: Belgium Online Status: Offline Posts: 1919 |
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Posted: 19-May-2006 at 12:22 |
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my grandfather is an meskh turk so i'm i naturaly he speak some words I
can't understand it's an caucasus dialect I think he pronounces some
word different like some words spelled with an H he says it with G like
a troath sound. Is it an dialect of anatolian or azeri or do The
meskhetian turks use words from the Georgians. Let me now
oh yeah this is my first post btw |
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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gok_toruk
Arch Duke
9 Oghuz Joined: 28-Apr-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1831 |
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Posted: 27-May-2006 at 12:39 |
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Hi there Barabr qartash. I hope you dont' get angry with me for my posts on Steppes forum. Anyhow, I've told you before many times that Uighur is the closest Turkic dilact to Turkmen. In Central Asia, we're close to Kazaks in the case of the phonotical linguistics (although some words change in these language; like 'y' and 'j', 's' and 'sh') and to Uzebeks when you're up to pick the words to say; I mean the way your sentence structure is based. But, totally speaking, Uighur is what we assume to be really alike. You know what Turkmens 'Haji's say when they meat Uighurs in Mecca? I've heard from all of them to say 'we met Chinese Turkmens there'... quite interesting.
And you know we've got two different Oghuz Turkic throughout history. The original (and the most correct form) Turkmen which is spoken in northern parts of country and among Turkmens of Kazakstan, have originated from the tongue related to 9 Oghuz (the most probable case). There was a later Oghuz dilaect which was later taken to Anatolia to become Anatolian Turkish. This Oghuz dialect (and probably the people speaking this) left ancient 9 Oghuz dialect very early. Almost most Central Asian historians believe this kind of difference and this story about the differentiation of Anatolian Turkish and the northern Turkmen dialects. Note, I'm talking about the northern dialects of Turkmenistan.
And we know 9 Oghuz were close to Uighurs. I also, times and times over, have mentioned what Oghuz Qaan has said about Uighurs. The similarity between Turkmen and Uighur is described like this.
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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gok_toruk
Arch Duke
9 Oghuz Joined: 28-Apr-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1831 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 27-May-2006 at 12:54 |
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Oh I forgot, the later Oghuz dialect's (Anatolian Turkish):
Bumin Qaqan sent his brother, Istemi with 10 Oghuz tribes to defeat the people who had remained from Ephtalites. They succeeded and then on, settled Central Asia. It is said, by Iranian historians, that these tribes settled somewhere NorthEastern parts of Iran. That's it.
To Bulldog, I should say, Uzbeks and Turkmen (especially the northern Turkmen dialects which is considered to be quite original) are alike; there comes just the change from 'a:' as in 'water' in Turkmen to 'a' as in 'bad' in Uzbek. The vocabulary is almost the same, except for the part in Uzbek which is Farsi; you know Uzbek is heavily affected by Farsi.
Totally, they understand each other quite well. Only in a matter... Turkmens use lots of sounds (in the beginning of the word or in the end) and suffixes like Kazak 'wa' (it's 'wo' in Turkmen). For instance, most Turkmens say 'ay bilemok' instead of saying simply 'bilemok'. You see, 'ay' is added which does not mean anything (it's not 'moon' here). Or just note how Turkmens say 'yes'. Northern Turkmens say 'qawo' (qa+wo) while southern Turkmens say 'hawo' (both are the same)which means 'so what?'. I think you got the point. Edited by gok_toruk - 27-May-2006 at 12:55 |
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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gok_toruk
Arch Duke
9 Oghuz Joined: 28-Apr-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1831 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 27-May-2006 at 13:02 |
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Well, Tangriberdi, Uzbek has Persian words more than any other Central Asian Turkic dilalect. It's not the most original Turkic language. It's not the most correct form even when you talk about the accent, either.
And about Turkmen, southern Turkmens like Yomut and Kokleng SEEMS to be like Anatolian; although the accent is quite distinct. But they dont' use 'qan' or 'ken' instead of 'an' or 'en'. For instance, Yomut says 'bolon' which is equal to Turkish 'olan' (has become). But, northern people like Ersari or northern Salyrs say 'bolqon' like Uzbek 'bolgan'. You see the difference. We believe original Turkmen language spoken in northern parts of country seems to be in another class, close to Uzbek and Kazak (and ofcourse Uighur) when compared to southern Turkmen which is the same with the Turkmen spoken in northeastern Iran that is closer to Anatolian Turkish.
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Tangriberdi
Earl
Joined: 03-Aug-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 28-May-2006 at 16:17 |
Gktrk zbekchenin Farsca szler ilen dolu olanini bilirim. Bu ziming oyi. z fikirim bu. Qulagima hosh gelir.
I know that Uzbek has lots of Persian words and accent of Persians . It is a language in interatcion with Persian. so their accent is closer To Persian than any other Turkish language.
But, it sounds well. literally and colloquially.
I heard that Southern Turkmen is closer to Turkish spoken in Turkey. I heard that in the south of Turkmenistan some people use -yor for the present continuous tense suffix. is it true?
By the way, some of our dying word here in Anatolia:
Erinmek: be lazy
Ssmek: hit with horns
Tapmak:find
Kaytmak: return
Saylamak: elect( not choose)
Yumak: wash
Yunmak:bathe
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xi_tujue
Arch Duke
Atabeg Joined: 19-May-2006 Location: Belgium Online Status: Offline Posts: 1919 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 28-May-2006 at 16:23 |
Somewhere i red that
turkish azeri turkmen uzbek uigur is----------> german
Kazkak en kyrgiz ---------> English
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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gok_toruk
Arch Duke
9 Oghuz Joined: 28-Apr-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1831 |
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Posted: 29-May-2006 at 11:22 |
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Good Tangriberdi. You're mixed words (a combination of something like Azeri- not Anatolian Turkish and Central Asian Turkic). 'ile' is used in Anatolian Turkish, not 'ilen' and the equivalent is 'birle, 'birlen', 'bile' and 'birlen' (four cases). We say 'angettikim' which is 'dushuncem' in Turkish. And we say 'quloqim gha'. And about southern Turkmen like Yomut, and Kokleng (Teke is also simillar to these dialects in structure; but it looks a bit more pure), you can say they're closer to Turkish than Northern Turkmen which is completely different from Turkish. About 'yor' I should say, in Turkmen language there are lots of ways to say present tense. See:
'Bilyan (men- but mostly dropped off)'= (I'm) the one who knows.
'Bilyarin (Bilyarim)'= I know
'Bil(aqa)ay (in, men- you can use it without these suffixes)'= I know (this is
'Bilemoq' (men- this is a negative form)= ( I ) don't know
the case mostly used among northern Turkmens.
But 'yar' is what you pronounce in Anatolian Turkish. The shift between 'o' and 'a' is usual in Turkic language. On the other hand, Anatolian Turkish use 'olan' while southern Turkmens say 'bolon'.
'Erinmek' is very rarely used here. Instead, we use 'yaltanmaq'. The others are the same, except for 'to take a bath'. We say 'yuwunmaq'. And the thing is that we dont' usually say 'a' clearly. It's just like saying 'water' in British English. You don't hear exactly 'a'. I think you got the point.
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Tangriberdi
Earl
Joined: 03-Aug-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
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Posted: 29-May-2006 at 18:42 |
İle in Anatolian Turkish is a derivative of Bilen/Birlen in Old Turkic.
It canbe traced historically as: Bilen>Ilen>Ile>-la/-le
And it has still many variations here in Anatolia, ilen ilen inen nen yinen etc.. But istanbulite one is standardized. That's all.
I agree with you on the rest.
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steven
Immortal Guard 
Joined: 30-May-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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Posted: 31-May-2006 at 00:38 |
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If you want to get by in Central Asia...let's be honest...learn Russian!
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.i understand only azeri and turkmen dialects..uzbek and kazaks arent clear for me
) and it is possible, although there significant differences sometimes!
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