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Atheists/Agnostics/Pagans/Kaffirs are better human beings
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Chieftain
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Posts: 1013 		  Quote Cent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Atheists/Agnostics/Pagans/Kaffirs are better human beings
    Posted: 13-May-2006 at 06:37
Religion is just a tool, which the elite uses to control others.
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 07:11

I don't believe it, I had just written out a huge post replying to all of the relevant points made by others only for it all to be lost when i hit post becaus eit had logged me out.

 



Edited by Zagros
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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 08:06
Originally posted by Zagros


I don't believe it, I had just written out a huge post replying to all of the relevant points made by others only for it all to be lost when i hit post becaus eit had logged me out.




I'm sure that was the Almighty's punishment for your blasphemous post.
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Posts: 2630 		  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 08:42
Originally posted by Loknar

flyingzone

I would ask you the same thing....why do you atheists pity us worshippers?

Who says I pity you???? There is no need for "atheist" to pity anyone because, atheist or not, when we die, we just die and then our bodies rot. There is no difference whatsoever between atheists and "worshippers."

In fact if there's anything that I "feel" about "worshippers", it's the following.

I don't believe in fairy-tale like concepts of heaven and hell, unlike you "worshippers." So I don't and never wish people, even those I dislike intensely, going to hell, unlike some of you "worshippers" who have this funny internal struggle in which on one hand, you wish those who don't agree with you to "burn in hell" (even though you don't want to admit it) but on the other hand, since your "benevolent" target of worship supposedly forbids you to harbour such "evil" thoughts (even though that "thing" called "god" is actually the creator of hell, which of course is another issue ... ), you are "forced" to say the otherwise.

Now, that's what I find REALLY amusing. Tell me who is more "evil" one between person A and B

person A who believes that anyone who doesn't believe in what (s)he believes in would "burn in hell" or

person B who thinks and treats others who don't believe in what (s)he believes in just as such

 

 



Edited by flyingzone
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 08:51
Originally posted by Zagros

I don't believe it, I had just written out a huge post replying to all of the relevant points made by others only for it all to be lost when i hit post becaus eit had logged me out.

 

lol

do like i do, after you finish writing your post, highlight it and click on Copy, then click the Post replay botton.

if you were loged out without posting simply log in agian and click the Paste botton and it all will come back and click post replay again.

 
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 08:52

Originally posted by Sherzod

gosh, another atheist?

I am not an atheist. Anyhow the question u asked was quite valid and there in also lies the problem of validating ones position from either viewpoint.

Secondly, to argue, i am right because what i believe is right is not the way to move forward on such an issue. And calm down, no one is attacking you.
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 08:54
Originally posted by azimuth

lol

do like i do, after you finish writing your post, highlight it and click on Copy, then click the Post replay botton.

if you were loged out without posting simply log in agian and click the Paste botton and it all will come back and click post replay again.

i am sure that is a common to most AE users and zargos just forgot.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 12:21
Originally posted by Sherzod

who knows? maybe you'll find out why to worry about hell, when you will be taken there?

So in other words you should not believe in what makes most sense, but you have to believe in the religion with the worst hell?

After all there are dozens of religions that claim you'll go to hell if you don't believe in that.

HANG ON! WHY IS IT ME, WHO SHOULD CONVINCE YOU THAT GOD EXISTS AND ISLAM IS CORRECT? WHY ME?

good point! If whatever God you think exists is all-powerful, he can all concince us his religion is correct within an the blink of an eye.

As for atheists/religious people being good/evil. I remember a quote, don't remember who said it but I agree with it very much: "Without religion you'd have good people do good things and and evil people do evil things. But to have good people to do do evil things, that requires religion"
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 12:43
Originally posted by Komnenos

[QUOTE=Zagros]


I don't believe it, I had just written out a huge post replying to all of the relevant points made by others only for it all to be lost when i hit post becaus eit had logged me out.




That's why you must belive in God, because this is only step one in your eternal torture on world and in hell. Blasphemous heathen athiest pagan!

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Posts: 481 		  Quote Aydin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 13:00
Religion is a powerful force, can be used in the right or wrong way, depending on who is using/abusing it.

Imo (without any scientific data or research) in general, (apparently) religious ppl can be very good ppl, or very bad ppl, while non-religious ppl are generally in the middle.

If a person is really religious (not pretending or abusing it), he will not lie, steal, be rude, mock, hurt anyone, ... and on the other hand, will help his family, neighbors, poor, is kind to ppl, ... You can trust him with your money, children, wife, ... But then again, those are the real ones not the fake.
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Posts: 666 		  Quote Loknar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 13:12
Originally posted by flyingzone

Originally posted by Loknar

flyingzone

I would ask you the same thing....why do you atheists pity us worshippers?

In fact if there's anything that I "feel" about "worshippers", it's the following.

I don't believe in fairy-tale like concepts of heaven and hell, unlike you "worshippers."

Actually I dont believe in hell either. I used to but then I dont think it makes sense.

So I don't and never wish people, even those I dislike intensely, going to hell, unlike some of you "worshippers" who have this funny internal struggle in which on one hand, you wish those who don't agree with you to "burn in hell" (even though you don't want to admit it)

Generalization....something which you would break my balls over.

As I said, I dont believe in hell. I think it is a concept used by the church to incite fear in the dark ages (and middle).

 but on the other hand, since your "benevolent" target of worship supposedly forbids you to harbour such "evil" thoughts (even though that "thing" called "god" is actually the creator of hell, which of course is another issue ... ), you are "forced" to say the otherwise.

The Bible does condem the loving of violence. However, in the old testimate God does give you permission to defend your property from an attacker, however if the attacker fleas you cant harm him (capture him perhaps). Of course I only think this makes sense.

and as I said, Hell does not exist.

Now, that's what I find REALLY amusing. Tell me who is more "evil" one between person A and B

person A who believes that anyone who doesn't believe in what (s)he believes in would "burn in hell" or

person B who thinks and treats others who don't believe in what (s)he believes in just as such

If I understood B correctly (that a person treats all persone with respect despite the difference of belief) then B is less evil. And i would consider my self person B.

I'm not a religious man flyingzone, but I revere God. And it isnt my place to condem sombody to "hell" (doesnt exist....it's BS).
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 15:14
Loknar, what denomination of Christianity do you belong to (if any)?

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Posts: 1458 		  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 15:27
I will keep picking on the comparance of christianity and nazism as i do not see the difference on a large level and i would need somebody to "open my eyes."

Hitler promised a Thousand Year country of prosperity, chrisitanity promised heaven. Both listen to their leaders preaching (the Fuhrer or the holy father, bishop, the pope) of the coming godly life and both subdue to the words they hardly even understand. The so called belief in these words and the general idea of it surpasses personal reason to some extent. Both adore their leader without any real basis other than hear-say. The logic of both ideologies is taken from out of nowhere - nazism derived from some romanitc Germanic medieval history where the German nation had always been the superior nation and so forth, christianity began from calling christians as the ones with true knowledge and enlightenment and that they have been the "ones" to reach heaven and have the privilege to get there. The Arians also said they had sole right to live respectably, everyone else were to be wiped off the face of the Earth as they were not worthy. But when you look at it, nazis were already in progress with Gods work when you look at it from a christian point of view - they were doing the equivalent of what God promises will happen to us on a grander scale by his own doing some time soon.

O guys, i actually came to a philosphical theory or even an absolution right now after writing the thing above. I personally think this is more of an absolute truth, one of the few on this planet at the moment. I need some credit after this.

It goes like this: Nazism in general is more humanitarian of an ideology than christianity because atleast the victims of nazism don't end up being infinitely tortured in Hell while God/Hitler is dancing with the chosen ones in Heaven/the Third Reich.

ergo, as i am not a nazi, i can't choose to be christian either. Its a tad sarcastic but the ideological truth of the the two remains just as their foundations are.

Moving on to my next opinion, as what else can there be when discussing something as grotesgue as religion, right?

I believe that when you face, in life, real suffering of which life composes of, religion leaves you stranded and rotting to handle it solo. Of course it can offer a "pink-solution" for any problem, but that still leaves your sub-consious with piled up psychological issues that will burst out in the future or crush you as a person. I mean that excusing everything bad that happens in life is not a solution that satisfies the human mind or psyche. It is a delusional treatment that pushes the problem further into the future.

So moving on with the point, when your 6-year old child dies after being raped, (i'll bring as bad of an example as possible because thats what life is) do you look at God and thank him for that? In a (Abrahamic)religious way you should thank God as your child is in Heaven, or maybe in hell as he/she had no chance to prove its "worth." Or atleast thank God because whatever he does, is good, even wonderful in the end no matter what. So my point is - preach how much you want with your hollow words, life is horrible and saying that God will help me in this is pathetic and ridiculous. I won't start imagining that God flipped his divine fingers and let those bastars loose on my child and i have to tolerate it.

Of course such realization that Gods sick and stomach turning existance is unreal can basically only become a reality among people of the more developed west where other alternatives are given for people to evolve in a scoiety than the traditional way of life in other places of the world where Abrahamic religions spread. In the mountains of Afghanistan, a muslim has a most narrow way of thinking so his reality only limits to Allah for example so he can't possibly figure out anything logical out of suffering.

So, whats the christian opinion on this? Real suffering, not your paying taxes or getting home only at nights and missing your childs baseball game crocodile tears?
There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Sherzod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 17:02

So in other words you should not believe in what makes most sense, but you have to believe in the religion with the worst hell?

I havent said that, but bearing in mind and taking seriously the existance of heaven and hell is one of the most important concepts upon which Islam builds up!  

After all there are dozens of religions that claim you'll go to hell if you don't believe in that.
I am not talking about other dozens of..... I am talking about Islam, the only religion Allah has permitted!!!!

good point! If whatever God you think exists is all-powerful, he can all concince us his religion is correct within an the blink of an eye.
So you want Allah himself to make you atheists believe in him, simply that easily? Just think upon your own comments, maybe you'll discover your stupid logic! Just a tip: Allah is not a cheater like you!!!

As for atheists/religious people being good/evil. I remember a quote, don't remember who said it but I agree with it very much: "Without religion you'd have good people do good things and and evil people do evil things. But to have good people to do do evil things, that requires religion"

with the same success this meaningless quote could have been said: "But, to have evil people to do the good things, that requires religion" - this version is more viable in every aspect. Anyway, I don't like these stupid quotes, cause they are said by mortal beings - people (atheists to be correct). and, comparing the teachings from the Holy Book of Allah and these meaningless quotes - just makes your(atheists) lifes easier, cause you are all egoists. 

ps

hmm... I have found another synonymous word for egoists... 
"Power is in fairness...!" - Amir Temur (1336-1405)
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Posts: 1155 		  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 17:53
Religions are obsolete and they are not reformable, becouse "God's words" are not changeable, and if you try to change God's words so you are heretic. better be an atheist and get ride of all religiouse BS.
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Sherzod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 18:36

Originally posted by Maziar

Religions are obsolete and they are not reformable, becouse "God's words" are not changeable, and if you try to change God's words so you are heretic. better be an atheist and get ride of all religiouse BS.

 

adressed at me?
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 20:42
Sherzod, you keep saying that Allah, heaven, and hell exist. Where is your proof? You act like you know that it exists when you have not seen any of it. It is like believing that something invisible is there. 

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Posts: 1155 		  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 20:55
Originally posted by Sherzod

Originally posted by Maziar

Religions are obsolete and they are not reformable, becouse "God's words" are not changeable, and if you try to change God's words so you are heretic. better be an atheist and get ride of all religiouse BS.

 

adressed at me?

No, generally
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 22:14

Sherzod illustrates my point that religious people are close minded cowards who have so little self confidence and when they encounter contrary views they begin to freak out.  I think hes a prefect example of how large parts of the Muslim world (and still large parts of America like the south) are more backwards because of their inability to have discussion and challenge their views.  My secular society gives a fair trial no mater who they are (in theory), his society stones people to death on unfounded charges.

There sill has been no proof and the burden of proof isnt on me.  Why should U prove there is no god anymore than I should disprove the crazy homeless guys ranting about smurfs being real.  WHo has time to disprove every crazy nation?  No, the crazy notions must be the ones tha are proven so that acually inelligent and creative people can figure out how to make real society better.

Why do I refuse to beleive in unfounded charges abou divinity? A better question would be why people willingly hold back their societies progress by closing their minds to debate and repressing other peoples freedoms.  Every country needs a Mustapha Kemal.
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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 22:20
Originally posted by Sherzod

Originally posted by red clay

 

       I'll not challenge you on that. It doesn't matter.  What my point is, you believe this and that's fine.  These ideas work for you, great, and I'm not being sarcastic, I respect that.

       My belief system doesn't include these concepts, I have my own and they work for me, and I ask that you respect that as well.   

I accept that, but I can not respect that! Because what you see at me is - a naive guy, who "even" beleives in the existance of God! (I am not losing anything)

but I see in you - a person who is in a mistaken path which contradicts to what Allah has teached, thus a person who needs help before it is too late. My debates, in no means are of value for me, but you should consider them as a value for you, because the only things I am saing is I am trying to help

    I do not need help, yours or anyone Else's. I do not need "saving" [ as I tell the legions of Jehovah's witnesses that besiege me every weekend] and since I do not have your respect I'll close with this.

    Screw your afterlife,What matters is how one conducts oneself in the here and now. I live my life to the standards and principles I believe in and conduct myself as a citizen of the universe, not as a member of any artificial, fear mongering organization that demands adherence to an insane and intolerable set of laws designed to control  and oppress.

     You have your fear, I have shaving, yes, shaving. I shave every morning, and to do this I must look in the mirror.  I can do this without fear.

    



Edited by red clay
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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