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April 30- Berlin liberated

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Temujin View Drop Down
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Sirdar Bahadur

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: April 30- Berlin liberated
    Posted: 04-May-2006 at 15:20

Black and white is simple to understand, thats why black-white rhetorics are so loved on this forum....

what are you talking about at all? the plain Wehrmacht soldier and the plain Red Army soldier were pressed into service by their regime, forced to invade another country and to hold to the last spill of blood what has been conquered (Wehrmacht) or forced by NKVD officers to charge German lines sometimes even without a weapon and being shot if refused or retreatet (Red Army). both armies were mere tools by their oppressive regimes and their officers. left alone the 1 million of soviet citizens who aided the Wehrmacht (because of anti-Stalinism and anti-Communism and national independence movements). you cannot ignore the crimes of the Soviets against their own people, i fail to see why people here openly accept a minor episode of Caucasian nationalism but took a blind eye on one of the biggest crimes in human history. people always complain that AE has derogated in history quality, but i only see people who are eager to talk about politics, even in history forums! shut up! its YOU being the problem. if you want history, talk history, if you want politics, go on and open a new forum just for AEs political madness. Soviet Union was not invaded before 22nd june, and Stalin really cannot complain about Barbarossa either, Stalin invaded Eastern Europe on the basis of a treatment concluded with Evil himself? if you make a deal with the Devil, he will come for your soul later, Stalin didn't learned this lesson and his people had to pay the highest price for his imperialism. YES, Soviet Union is Imperialism, ever heard of Komintern? if the armed overtaking of all world-countries under a communist regime is not Imperialist, then i don't know what Imperialism is! and i don't understand why people always whine about Dresden bombing and such but hail the Red Armies war crimes as justified retaliation of similar German crimes...ever heard about Coventry and London? i don't care about those civilians killed at Dresden, war crime is war crime, war IS crime, why they complain about a natural thing? what else do they expect from war? if you whine about Dresden, why not whine about Berlin rapings? Janushead....a person with two faces, two moral standards...

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ulrich von hutten View Drop Down
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  Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 15:36

as the plotter of this thread i like to resume now. was berlin freed then ,or who freed berlin or isn't  berlin yet free ?

the red army did the job,i freed berlin after 12 years of totalitarianism. nazi german was defeated and the nation got a chance to begin ,in living in a different way. cold war and some  other details  give the  west-germans a better chance to find the way to live in peace. the bill for that is payed now after the breakdown of the soviet union and its satellite states.

so , nobody can come to a closing of this event ,even after 61 years.


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Temujin View Drop Down
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Sirdar Bahadur

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 15:44
half of Berlin wasn't free until 1990...
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Kalevipoeg View Drop Down
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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 18:40
I agree with Temujin, you can't prefer (Soviet)communism over nazism or vice versa while they both are on an equal scale on their gruesome acts and they also combined their destructive systems before "Barbarossa" happened, which shows that at heart the systems are brothers as they were like an oiled killing machine together. This is the idea i have been trying to pass on here in my opinion when WW2 or Stalinist topics come up in the forum, but i don't know how good of a job i have done this far.
There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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Richard XIII View Drop Down
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  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2006 at 08:38
he same is true of Europe, as the second example illustrates. There too the view of history depends to a significant degree on place. A 1992 survey revealed that 52 percent of West German respondents considered the Third Reich and National Socialism the defining events of Germany's past, as opposed to only 11 percent of the East Germans, of whom 30 percent thought the construction of the Berlin Wall in 1961 the more important[13]. A poll in 1995 revealed that to the question which power was most responsible for defeating Nazi Germany, 69% of the West Germans replied the U.S. and 87% of the East Germans replied the Soviet Union. East Germans remembered National Socialism primarily for the wars devastation, West Germans for the Holocaust[14]. Not surprisingly, then, in Nazi-occupied countries it is the Holocaust that by and large now defines the memory of the Second World War. In British memory and historiography the Holocaust doesnt count for nearly as much[15], although the flood of English literature shows an upsurge in interest in the Holocaust in English-speaking countries, as is evidenced by the establishment of major Holocaust Museums in both the US and the UK.


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