Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

April 30- Berlin liberated

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Komnenos View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Administrator

Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361
  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: April 30- Berlin liberated
    Posted: 30-Apr-2006 at 04:32
April 30 is the 120th day of the year in the Gregorian calendar (121st in leap years), with 245 days remaining, as the last day in April.

From:

Wikipedia
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
Back to Top
ulrich von hutten View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Court Jester

Joined: 01-Nov-2005
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3638
  Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Apr-2006 at 05:14

1945 The Red Banner was set at the roof of demaged Reichstag in  Berlin. the ukrainian soldier Alexei Berest flied the flag after the Red Army has freed Berlin .

the legendary picture however was shot a few days later , when commrad Berest re-enacted the scene.

a part of the free Berlin has to suffer a few years later under the dicatorship of soviet and german-democratic labour- and countrymen-state blessings.

During this time Berest spended 3 years of his life in a Gulag as a compliment for his service for the soviet people !!!

At the very same day ,only a few hundred km away the bavarian capital  of the nazi movement munich was freed by the us-army only that another dictatorship under the leading of  the CSU (christian-social union)  was esthablished sometimes later  and still exists.


Back to Top
TheDiplomat View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1988
  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2006 at 16:03
That Red Army which ''liberated'' Berlin was an army of rapists..
ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

Back to Top
Komnenos View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Administrator

Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361
  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2006 at 16:43
Originally posted by TheDiplomat

That Red Army which ''liberated'' Berlin was an army of rapists..



You should know better than make such sweeping generalisations.
Nobody denies that the advancing Red Army committed a number of crimes against the resident German population, amongst them many women, and although it is not excusable, in view of the incomparably larger atrocities the Germans inflicted on the people of the Soviet Union, it is somewhat understandable as a moment of revenge, conducted by mere mortals.
And yes, to get rid of the Nazi-Regime was a liberation in every sense of the word. And the Red Army contributed a great deal to it, for which the Germans should be grateful.


Edited by Komnenos
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
Back to Top
Behi View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 27-Apr-2005
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2268
  Quote Behi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2006 at 18:10
10 Ordibehesht,   Aabaan = Water

1030:
Soltan Mahmud Ghaznavi Death

The Sultan is to the right, shaking the hand of the sheykh, with Ayaz standing behind him.

Mahmud of Ghazni ( Persian:  محمود غزنوی )  (October 2, 971April 30, 1030), also known as Yamin ad-Dawlah Mahmud (in full: Yamin ad-Dawlah Abd al-Qasim Mahmud Ibn Sebk Tigin) was the ruler of Ghazni from 997 until his death. Mahmud turned the former provincial city of Ghazni (in present-day Afghanistan) into the wealthy capital of an extensive empire which included today's Afghanistan, most of modern Iran, and parts of Pakistan and northern India.

Legacy

By the end of his reign, his empire extended from Kurdistan in the west to Samarkand in the northeast, and from the Caspian Sea to the Yamuna. Although his raids carried his forces across Indian sub-continent, only the Punjab and Sindh, modern Pakistan, came under his permanent rule; Kashmir, the Doab, Rajasthan and Gujarat remained under the control of the local Rajput dynasties.

The wealth brought back to Ghazni was enormous, and contemporary historians (e.g. Abolfazl Beyhaghi, Ferdowsi) give glowing descriptions of the magnificence of the capital, as well as of the conqueror's munificent support of literature. he transformed Ghazni into one of the leading cities of Central Asia, patronizing scholars, establishing colleges, laying out gardens, and building mosques, palaces, and caravansaries.

On April 30, 1030, Sultan Mahmud died in Ghazni, at the age of 59 years. Sultan Mahmud had contracted malaria during his last invasion. The medical complication from malaria had caused lethal tuberculosis. He had been a gifted military commander, and during his rule, universities were founded to study various subjects such as mathematics, religion, the humanities, and medicine&. Islam was the main religion of his kingdom and the Perso-Afghan dialect Dari was made the official language.

The Ghaznavid Empire was ruled by his successors for 157 years, but after Mahmud it never reached anything like the same splendour and power. The expanding Seljuk Turkish empire absorbed most of the Ghaznavid west. The Persian Ghorids captured Ghazni c. 1150, and Muhammad Ghori captured the last Ghaznavid stronghold at Lahore in 1187. The Ghaznavids went on to live as the Nasher-Khans in their home of Ghazni until the 20th century.

Pakistan today has named one of its medium-range missiles in honour of him.

1909: Rahi Mo'ayeri's birthday

Rahi Mo'ayeri's tomb is enclosed by a glass case at Darband, Shemiran, Tehran.

Rahi Mo'ayeri ( رهي معيري in Persian) was a famous contemporary poet and musician from Iran.

He was born on April 30, 1909 in Tehran , his book Sayeh Omr (سايه عمر in Persian) (translated "The Shadow of Life") of poems was printed in 1964.

He died on November 15, 1968 in Tehran and was buried in Tehran.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahi_Mo%27ayeri
http://www.iranianshistoryonthisday.com/FARSI.ASP?u=&I1. x=28&I1.y=14&HD=10&HM=2
Back to Top
TheDiplomat View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1988
  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2006 at 15:29

Originally posted by Komnenos

You should know better than make such sweeping generalisations.
Nobody denies that the advancing Red Army committed a number of crimes against the resident German population, amongst them many women, and although it is not excusable, in view of the incomparably larger atrocities the Germans inflicted on the people of the Soviet Union, it is somewhat understandable as a moment of revenge, conducted by mere mortals.
And yes, to get rid of the Nazi-Regime was a liberation in every sense of the word. And the Red Army contributed a great deal to it, for which the Germans should be grateful.

You are right about making such generalizations.

I was under the impression of some stories that I read recently.But also given the fact that that Red Army raped up to 2 million women (100.000 during the Berlin war) of Eastern Eureope during their counter-offensive, I could not agree with the term liberation of Berlin and The Red Army but generalize like that.

To my epiloge, If I were a German , I would not be grateful to the Red Army.Because I would bear in my mind the idea that the Red ARmy fought for the advance of communism rather than liberating me from the Nazi Regime. And sooner or later The Naiz Regime would vanish in the end.

Regards!

ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

Back to Top
ulrich von hutten View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Court Jester

Joined: 01-Nov-2005
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3638
  Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2006 at 15:42

the diplomat wrote : And sooner or later The Naiz Regime would vanish in the end.

how do you  come to such a conclusion ?

the diplomat:If I were a German , I would not be grateful to the Red Army

the germans had to be greatful to all who saved the german people of the nazi-babarism. and of course the red army was not the best organisation to show them , how democraty works , but obviously the fighting labours and countrymen were brave enough to withstood the "predominant arian race".


Back to Top
TheDiplomat View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1988
  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2006 at 15:51

Originally posted by ulrich von hutten

the diplomat wrote : And sooner or later The Nazi Regime would vanish in the end.

how do you  come to such a conclusion ?

History.

You can resist the invasion of foreign armies but not an idea whose time has come! Even The Mighty  Soviet Union came to an end,my icelandic fellow history-lover

And The Nazi Regime due to its ill-fated ideology was destinied to its very downfall.

ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

Back to Top
Beylerbeyi View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Cuba
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1355
  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2006 at 16:36

That Red Army which ''liberated'' Berlin was an army of rapists..

No more than the Turkish army which liberated Izmir were arsonists.

Because I would bear in my mind the idea that the Red ARmy fought for the advance of communism rather than liberating me from the Nazi Regime.

'Advance of Communism' and 'liberation from the Nazi regime' are the same thing in this context.

And sooner or later The Naiz Regime would vanish in the end.

Sooner or later mankind will become extinct, as well.

You can resist the invasion of foreign armies but not an idea whose time has come!

Well, if you look at the photo closely, you'll see that you couldn't resist this invasion. 

Back to Top
Komnenos View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Administrator

Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361
  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2006 at 17:02
Shall we compare figures:

During WW2 and the occupation of the Soviet Union by Nazi-Germany 11,500,000 Soviet Civilians died as a direct result of the war ( and 10,600,000 Red Army soldiers and another 1 Million Jewish citizens), whilst Germany suffered 1,840,000 civilian casualties ( and 5,500,000 military ones and 160.000 Jewish ones).
As much as the raping of German women (especially if the 2 Million figure is right) is inexcusable, those figures bring the sufferings of the civilian population in some kind of perspective. (Figures from Wikipedia)

As for the argument that the Red Army only fought for "the advance of Communism", if I remember it was Nazi Germany that attacked the Soviet Union ( and not the other way round) and occupied and terrorised the Soviet Union for a few years.
That the Red Army fought back to liberate their country from the Nazi barbarians and then advanced into Germany to force the capitulation of Hitler's regime is under those circumstances rather understandable.
That it would have collapsed anyway might be right, but why it should have been tolerated only one day longer than absolutely necessary, is a mystery to me.
I can only repeat myself, we Germans should be thankful to the Red Army (together with the other countries that fought Nazi-Germany) ,and recognise the huge sacrifises the Soviet people made in the effort to liberate Germany from the Nazis.
That it all went rather sour only shortly after the end of the war, is not only the Soviet Union's fault.


Edited by Komnenos
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
Back to Top
TheDiplomat View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1988
  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2006 at 02:54
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

Originally posted by TheDiplomat

That Red Army which ''liberated'' Berlin was an army of rapists..

No more than the Turkish army which liberated Izmir were arsonists.

1- You can not compare oranges to apples

2-You can not escape from the reality by putting blame on the others

3-That was a very poor counter-argument for your side

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

'Advance of Communism' and 'liberation from the Nazi regime' are the same thing in this context.

Hmmm,not for the Poles,The Baltic Peoples I think...

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

Sooner or later mankind will become extinct, as well.

Sooner or later you might get a warning for hijacking as well

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

Well, if you look at the photo closely, you'll see that you couldn't resist this invasion

I could. Ever heard of the Turkish Independence War?

ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

Back to Top
TheDiplomat View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1988
  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2006 at 02:56

Quote:
That Red Army which ''liberated'' Berlin was an army of rapists..

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

No more than the Turkish army which liberated Izmir were arsonists.

1- You can not compare oranges to apples

2-You can not escape from the reality by putting blame on the others

3-That was a very poor counter-argument for your side

Beylerbeyi wrote:
'Advance of Communism' and 'liberation from the Nazi regime' are the same thing in this context.

Hmmm,not for the Poles,The Baltic Peoples I think...

Beylerbeyi wrote:
Sooner or later mankind will become extinct, as well.

Sooner or later you might get a warning for hijacking,insulting on this forum as well

Beylerbeyi wrote:
Well, if you look at the photo closely, you'll see that you couldn't resist this invasion

I could. Ever heard of the Turkish Independence War?

ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

Back to Top
TheDiplomat View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1988
  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2006 at 03:02

Originally posted by Komnenos

As for the argument that the Red Army only fought for "the advance of Communism", if I remember it was Nazi Germany that attacked the Soviet Union ( and not the other way round) and occupied and terrorised the Soviet Union for a few years.

What about the invasion of Poland?

What about the winter war with Finland?

What about the invasion of Romania?

It was the Red Army which was the agressor.

and my friend,

What about turning a blind eye to the warsaw uprising of 1944 whereas The Poles was considering that The Red Army would help them fighting the Nazis?

ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

Back to Top
the Bulgarian View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 25-Jul-2005
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 618
  Quote the Bulgarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2006 at 13:24

It's not surprising that the majority of Germans didn't (and still don't) view the Red army as a liberator, because the Germans were promissed world domination. In that sence the Soviets "liberated" them from ruling the world, something the Germans were beggining to feel intitled to. That's why the Fritzes felt soar when beeing "liberated".

And as for TheDiplomat: if the Nazis had won the war they would have taken over the world and irradicated all other nations (probably with some minor exceptions - Japs, Brits, Yanks, maybe French.). That's why Nazism was in for a bright and shiny future if Germany had overpowered the USSR. Even if it eventually colapsed in the far future (not very likely) non of owr grandchildren would be around to see it for the sole reason that Bulgarians, Turks, Poles, etc. would be turned into soap (not cool ). For this reason you should show great respect when reffering to the one, the only SOVIET ARMY. LONG LIVE THE RED ARMY.

Back to Top
Kalevipoeg View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 06-Aug-2004
Location: Estonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1458
  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2006 at 14:44
The red Army was out for revenge, i don't think Stalin cared if millions of Germans died under the insane nazi regime or not, it was revenge which itself was justified to the extent of invading Berlin and also maybe stuffing a grenade down the furhers throat, but too bad that plan wasn't a success. The only thing you can't justify is the rape of girls, women and elderly women, that was gruesome and sick.

I will say hail to the Red army due to the inhuman effort it went through to basically run on its feet from Stalingrad to Berlin and fight the fiercest battle in human history, but on from that it was pure barbarianism old "Soviet style" - rape, carelesness for human life (the everlasting xenophobia towards Poles when watching Wehrmacht killing Poles across the river). The USSR deserved it freedom and victory over Hitler, but not my home damn it.
There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
Back to Top
Komnenos View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Administrator

Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361
  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2006 at 15:41
Originally posted by TheDiplomat

What about the invasion of Poland?


What about the winter war with Finland?


What about the invasion of Romania?


It was the Red Army which was the agressor.


and my friend,


What about turning a blind eye to the warsaw uprising of 1944 whereas The Poles was considering that The Red Army would help them fighting the Nazis?



Nobody would pretend that Stalin and his military had a similar agenda as the Salvation Army, spreading happiness and peace throughout the world.
The abandonment of the Polish resistance in the Warsaw uprising was a shameful episode, the invasion of Finland and Romania was not exactly a glorious chapter, but in view of the fascist danger amssing on Soviet borders a somewhat understable over-reaction. But those were only side-issues, and the "Great Patriotic War" was foremost that, an attempt to first defend against the agression of and then to liberate the Soviet-Union from Nazi-Germany.
That the Soviet-Union after the war sought to enlarge its sphere of control was in view of the looming East-West conflict, later to be the "Cold War" equally understandable. The Soviet-Union had by then twice been attacked by the capitalist West, and in order to secure its chances of survival in another possible war, the acquisition of large parts of Eastern Europe was a logical move.
As much as Capitalism had attempted to hold on to its rule in Central Europe, thereby facilitating the rise of Fascist states and starting a World War, the Stalinist Russia tried and succeeded to establish Stalinist systems in those territories it had freed from Nazi-Germany.
You as a diplomat should recognise that.
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
Back to Top
Beylerbeyi View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Cuba
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1355
  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2006 at 17:16

Sooner or later you might get a warning for hijacking,insulting on this forum as well

And who's gonna give me that warning? You?  

Btw, I find it quite funny that you added 'insulting' there, to make your feeble threat more believable in the eyes of others.

I could. Ever heard of the Turkish Independence War?

You said you don't consider the Red Army liberators, which means you are pro-Nazi. Therefore, my comment 'you couldn't resist this invasion'. I am not surprised at all that you needed an explanation. 

Back to Top
TheDiplomat View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1988
  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 13:35

[quote=Beylerbeyi]You said you don't consider the Red Army liberators, which means you are pro-Nazi[/quuote]

This clearly shows that you are nothing more than a simple logic...

Keep up seeing the world in black and white like a primary school kid

 

ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

Back to Top
TheDiplomat View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1988
  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 13:52

[quote=Komnenos]the invasion of Finland and Romania was not exactly a glorious chapter, but in view of the fascist danger amssing on Soviet borders a somewhat understable over-reaction. But those were only side-issues, and the "Great Patriotic War" was foremost that, an attempt to first defend against the agression of and then to liberate the Soviet-Union from Nazi-Germany[/quuote]

Fascist antonescu of Romania?

Do you really believe that Romania had had an intention to invade Moscow, and hence The Soviet Union used the pre-emtive strike doctrine?

The Red ARmy attacks on both Finland and Romania in the first phase of the war are  BY NO MEANS justifiable.

And Komnenos, The Red ARmy did not only rape the German women,but also Russian women found in the forced labour camps of Germany. So revenge rhetoric is also invalid.

I understand you guys...The fact that The Red Army defeated the Wehrmacht and The Nazis makes you guys legendize this army in your mind....

For me the army of Alexander I which ''liberated'' Paris ,and the army of Stalin which ''liberated'' Berlin served the same purpose: the Russian Imperialism.

Given the barbarization of warfare conducted by the both armies,humanist rhetoric related with the Red army does not have any valid ground.

 

ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

Back to Top
Kalevipoeg View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 06-Aug-2004
Location: Estonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1458
  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 15:04
Komnenos wrote: "As much as Capitalism had attempted to hold on to its rule in Central Europe, thereby facilitating the rise of Fascist states and starting a World War, the Stalinist Russia tried and succeeded to establish Stalinist systems in those territories it had freed from Nazi-Germany."


It was the Soviet German cooperation that allowed Germany to rise on its racist feet, training the first Luftwaffe officers and otherwise military and economical friendship. Stalin didn't flinch either way, if it was Hindenburg or Hitler. His plans saw the destruction of Europe and his armies bringing communism to the peoples of Europe. He had no sympathy towards anything other than bolshevism, he was the biggest friend the nazis had and they (Hitler and Stalin) adored eachother as rulers and for their strong and merciless brutality. the MRP started the war, one week after that Poland was attacked, the Soviets wanted this war as much as Hitler wanted the Holocaust. Hitler would have kept up his propaganda speeches for another decade and die of senility, rather than kill 6 million Jews or maybe it would have been good if he had attacked still even with enemies on two fronts, would have taken 6 weeks, not 6 years to annihilate him.  But hell, war suited very well for Stalin, he opened the doors for the brown plague and aided the advance of nazism when his "happy workers" lost their hard grown grain because the Wehrmacht needed the strength to invade Europe.

I can't see Stalins regime as a victim as he stabbed a number of countries in the back while he got only one knife in his. Nothing sad for me to see Stalin changing his pants for a pair of dry ones, but then again sociopaths don't care either way. Although this doesn't go against the Soviet population that got massacred by the nazis, the regime solely.


Beylerbeyi: "You said you don't consider the Red Army liberators, which means you are pro-Nazi."


So i could make the conclusion that you practice backhead shots on Baltic civilians, logic rocks.
There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.090 seconds.