Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Who are the Romans today?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 6>
Author
coolstorm View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 11-Nov-2004
Location: Hong Kong
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1066
  Quote coolstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who are the Romans today?
    Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 01:43

Where are the Roman people now?

Who are the descendants of Romans?

Italians? or Latinos?

I have always wanted to ask this question.

 

Back to Top
Degredado View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Portugal
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 366
  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 03:52
Mostly Italians. But a few people all over Europe might have their genes.
Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 07:47
I don't think there's a single European who has not a little of their genes. 
Back to Top
Imperator Invictus View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Retired AE Administrator

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3151
  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 17:55
Very little, I would say. If you mean the original Romans of the early republic, I would bet that less than 2% of Italians have their genes.

Part of the problem is that there's no such thing as a Roman race. Roman is a political term for people living in an empire.


Edited by Imperator Invictus
Back to Top
YusakuJon3 View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 223
  Quote YusakuJon3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 18:24
In other words, practically no one is a 'Roman' today in the sense of the word as it as originally defined.  Instead, we have a mixture of Italian, German and Celtic with a dash of Greek and Semitic here and a stronger dose of Arabic there.  Practically everything that defined a persan as Roman was lost by the time the city fell under a Germanic invasion during the 5th Century AD, and it was already well-diluted by the influx of non-Roman slaves and immigrants that was swelling the city's population even before the rise of the empire.
"There you go again!"

-- President Ronald W. Reagan (directed towards reporters at a White House press conference, mid-1980s)
Back to Top
Imperatore Dario I View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 204
  Quote Imperatore Dario I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 20:06

There was never a Roman race. Italy was filled with various different populations. The Gauls to the north, the Greeks to the South, the Etruscans in the north west, and the Latins in the center. All of these blended to form Rome. But the Romans themselves called Italy the homeland of the Roman Empire, so I'd give it to Italy. Certainly, I'm not saying anything racially. Because then the modern Greeks are not the same as the ancient Greeks, the Iraqis, etc. But basically, the Romans called Italy their home. Alarmingly though, Italians have a more shared genetic make up with the Ancient Romans than popularly believed.Even the story of Rome's beginnings are not of a "pure" place. Like Virgil and the Aneneid story.



Edited by Imperatore Dario I

Let there be a race of Romans with the strength of Italian courage.- Virgil's Aeneid
Back to Top
cattus View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1803
  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 20:08
Where is the evidence that the Italians are a different people than that of the ancient Italics?
Back to Top
Imperatore Dario I View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 204
  Quote Imperatore Dario I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2004 at 14:49

Originally posted by Catt

Where is the evidence that the Italians are a different people than that of the ancient Italics?

The ancient Italics were not the only people who were living in Italy. There were also the Greeks, Gauls, and Etruscans as well. But basically, it didn't change drastically through all the invasions that occured in Italy.


Let there be a race of Romans with the strength of Italian courage.- Virgil's Aeneid
Back to Top
Romano Nero View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 16-Nov-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 132
  Quote Romano Nero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2004 at 07:23

Very good imperatore. Yes, the ancient Romans were predominantly Latin, but not only. Etruscan and Greek elements blended in the mix from very early - even in the times of the creation of the city. Later and especially in the imperial years, the population of Rome (1 mi. people at a point) literally was an amalgam from all over the empire. At least a hundred "races" ("ethnic groupings"?) blended in the grandioso melting pot of Rome. The "fine Roman familiae" became only a footnote in the history, while merchants, upstarters and even ex slaves from all over the empire (a 200 million people empire, at its best) became members of the ruling class of Rome.

Roman culture was dilluted all over, and became one of the most widely accepted western cultures of all times (the Greek, English and American should be the other contestants for that prize). It wasn't uncommon for Gauls, Greeks, Germanics or anyone else for that matter, to define their status as "Roman citizen". Because "Roman" wasn't a race; it was a status.

Back to Top
Imperatore Dario I View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 204
  Quote Imperatore Dario I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2004 at 14:16
Originally posted by Romano Nero

Very good imperatore. Yes, the ancient Romans were predominantly Latin, but not only. Etruscan and Greek elements blended in the mix from very early - even in the times of the creation of the city. Later and especially in the imperial years, the population of Rome (1 mi. people at a point) literally was an amalgam from all over the empire. At least a hundred "races" ("ethnic groupings"?) blended in the grandioso melting pot of Rome. The "fine Roman familiae" became only a footnote in the history, while merchants, upstarters and even ex slaves from all over the empire (a 200 million people empire, at its best) became members of the ruling class of Rome.

Umm did you not see what I typed above? I DID say that it wasn't only Latins.

 

Roman culture was dilluted all over, and became one of the most widely accepted western cultures of all times (the Greek, English and American should be the other contestants for that prize). It wasn't uncommon for Gauls, Greeks, Germanics or anyone else for that matter, to define their status as "Roman citizen". Because "Roman" wasn't a race; it was a status.

How could the Greeks, British, and Americans be other contestants? Since when did the Romans land in America? Since when did the Greeks even look upon the Romans as equal? They've never liked the Romans, and the English? They've developed a Franco-Norman-English culture.


Let there be a race of Romans with the strength of Italian courage.- Virgil's Aeneid
Back to Top
Romano Nero View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 16-Nov-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 132
  Quote Romano Nero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2004 at 15:08

Imperatore, I think you have misread what I have written, so I won't call you on your peculiary rude behaviour. Since you are not native English speaker, you probably didn't understand the fine implications (or the obvious ones, for that matter) of my writing and assumed wrongly that I was attacking you in some way.

Point one: I only said "bravo" to you for what you said - ie. I said you are right.

Point two: I wrote that the Roman culture became one of the most widely accepted western cultures of all times (the Greek, English and American should be the other contestants for that prize). . What excactly did you misunderstand about that?  Roman culture was one of the four most widely accepted western cultures. In their days, Greek, English and American were equally (more or less) widely accepted. What excactly did you misunderstand? What has liking each other got to do with that?

Friends?

Back to Top
Imperatore Dario I View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 204
  Quote Imperatore Dario I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2004 at 14:12
Originally posted by Romano Nero

Imperatore, I think you have misread what I have written, so I won't call you on your peculiary rude behaviour. Since you are not native English speaker, you probably didn't understand the fine implications (or the obvious ones, for that matter) of my writing and assumed wrongly that I was attacking you in some way.

Point one: I only said "bravo" to you for what you said - ie. I said you are right.

Point two: I wrote that the Roman culture became one of the most widely accepted western cultures of all times (the Greek, English and American should be the other contestants for that prize). . What excactly did you misunderstand about that?  Roman culture was one of the four most widely accepted western cultures. In their days, Greek, English and American were equally (more or less) widely accepted. What excactly did you misunderstand? What has liking each other got to do with that?

Friends?

I'm sorry, I assumed you said that Greece, England, and America were also contestants of being the "Romans today." I was wrong, I apologize.


Let there be a race of Romans with the strength of Italian courage.- Virgil's Aeneid
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 13:06

As an Italian American let jump into this fray.

 First there is no such thing as an Italian race except as those of us who are called Italians but still highly mongrelized. This is bad? No not really. The most vigoriuos tribes invaded almost on a daily basis for thousands of years and it produced a most interesting people. The myriad races and groups are easily seen even today. In fact I have an excellant example.  All one has to do is look at our club photo of 1945 when 35 of us 16 year old guys formed a youth group at the local Sons Of Italy when they were having a membership drive hoping to attract some younger souls. 

 chemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />>>

If you look at this photo you will realize why three of our friends were called Gook, Jap and Hawaiian Sam, I  mean slant eyes, straight black air and no shaving! Two had red hair, were tall  yet were  from Sicily. Some had a pure Roman face, just like the busts from those ancient day, straight nose etc. You could see in every face a different distinct type yet we were all first generation Italians whose parents all came form Rome south. My closets buddy Babe was a real handsome guy whose mother was a tall fairly large broom Hilda type with blue eyes and his  father a dark "Turk" which happened to be his knick name.  If any one  would like to discuss this further I'm at dkjons@yahoo.com, Rico.

 >>

 >>

  

 

Back to Top
Imperatore Dario I View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 204
  Quote Imperatore Dario I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 20:15
Originally posted by riks

As an Italian American let jump into this fray.

 First there is no such thing as an Italian race except as those of us who are called Italians but still highly mongrelized. This is bad? No not really. The most vigoriuos tribes invaded almost on a daily basis for thousands of years and it produced a most interesting people. The myriad races and groups are easily seen even today. In fact I have an excellant example.  All one has to do is look at our club photo of 1945 when 35 of us 16 year old guys formed a youth group at the local Sons Of Italy when they were having a membership drive hoping to attract some younger souls. 

 chemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />>>

 

How can you even call Italians 'mongrelized'? Mongols are peoples of Asia, to this date,  there has been no Mongolic invasions of Italy (except of the Huns, whose army collapsed). There were no Asian influence on Italian geneology. In fact, most researches say that the blood of the Italian population remained the same over the past thousands of years.

 

If you look at this photo you will realize why three of our friends were called Gook, Jap and Hawaiian Sam, I  mean slant eyes, straight black air and no shaving! Two had red hair, were tall  yet were  from Sicily. Some had a pure Roman face, just like the busts from those ancient day, straight nose etc. You could see in every face a different distinct type yet we were all first generation Italians whose parents all came form Rome south. My closets buddy Babe was a real handsome guy whose mother was a tall fairly large broom Hilda type with blue eyes and his  father a dark "Turk" which happened to be his knick name.  If any one  would like to discuss this further I'm at dkjons@yahoo.com, Rico.

Strange things, and they all claimed to be "Italian?" In what century? I hightly doubt it at all. I AM from Sicily, I'm pure Sicilian, and there hasn't been any Asians or anything. Why do I highly, highly, discard you're comments as ludicrous? And I also have a hard time believing that you're Italian. HA! Hawaiian and Turkish looking people in Sicily, (I wonder how that could have happen, if neither the Turks, nor any Mongolic race ever occupied Sicily).



Edited by Imperatore Dario I

Let there be a race of Romans with the strength of Italian courage.- Virgil's Aeneid
Back to Top
cattus View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1803
  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2004 at 00:11
This could easily look similar to someone whose first language isnt english. Not mongol but mongrel which means a mix of many different, not just Asian.
Back to Top
Imperatore Dario I View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 204
  Quote Imperatore Dario I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2004 at 06:54

Originally posted by Catt

This could easily look similar to someone whose first language isnt english. Not mongol but mongrel which means a mix of many different, not just Asian.

Yes, you're right, I've gotten it confused. But there has been no mix of many races in Italy, perhaps the Arab invasion in Sicily is the only exception (and the Arabs were wiped out later on). Unless you count the Latin, Etruscan, and Greek migrations well before Rome existed (which, BTW, certainly do not count, since those are not races, they're ethnicities), then there has been no racial mixing.


Let there be a race of Romans with the strength of Italian courage.- Virgil's Aeneid
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2004 at 08:06
Yes, you're right, I've gotten it confused. But there has been no mix of many races in Italy, perhaps the Arab invasion in Sicily is the only exception (and the Arabs were wiped out later on).

And don't forget the Normands.
Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5221
  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2004 at 13:19
there were also Carthaginians in western sicily. and after the end of Norman rule it was in the hands of Germans, French and Spaniards...
Back to Top
Imperatore Dario I View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 204
  Quote Imperatore Dario I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2004 at 19:41

Originally posted by Temujin

there were also Carthaginians in western sicily. and after the end of Norman rule it was in the hands of Germans, French and Spaniards...

The Carthaginians? Yes, they occupied a slice of Western Sicily, but it's hard to believe that centuries after their occupation of the west that they didn't disappear. Plus the Normans don't count as another race, and they didn't put Germans in SIcily. In fact, they took Italians from the penninsula into the island, and then they themselves assimilated into the Sicilian population. The French occupation was pretty short, and they were overthrown by the Vespers, and the Spaniards, I don't recall any migration from Spain to Sicily (nor from France).


Let there be a race of Romans with the strength of Italian courage.- Virgil's Aeneid
Back to Top
Romano Nero View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 16-Nov-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 132
  Quote Romano Nero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 02:25

Goths migrated to Italy en masse. Something between 300 and 500K of Goths migrated into Italy during the 5th century AD only. Along with a great number of Lombardians (those where many) Franks and various other Germanic people. Also, you can't underestimate the Gallic influece, and surely the Arabic mix in the southern Italy was huge. And large bodies of Greeks and many, many more people from all over the Roman empire, migrated in ITaly (especially in Rome, but not only) during the existence of the unified Imperium Romanum.

I find the Italians a fascinating mix of people, and quite diverse too. In the North you find a lot of Germanic looking people, in the middle a mixture of typical mediteranean types and in Sicily you can find even demi-Semitic types... Fascinating.

On a relevant note, I've read an article somewhere about a few villages in mountainous Sicily, who still speak a form of Greek... a language called "Graeco" I think, or something like that...  

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 6>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.111 seconds.