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  Quote Joe Boxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Greatest Empires
    Posted: 01-Jul-2007 at 17:14
Most of your lists are based on cultural reasons. Mine, in terms of influence and legacy:
 
1. Arab Empire - can anyone argue with this? I mean really. They didnt spread their food, nor their architecture. They spread their religion and language all over the world. From Spain to Indonesia; Kazakhstan to Tanzania. Everyone follows a modified version. Christianity spread slowly, Islam spread within 100 years.
 
2. Egyptian Empire - we fall praise to their legacy to this day. Their temples and kings are mentioned in our holy books and religions. The first doctor: Imhotep, to the longest lasting dynasties.
 
3. Assyrian Empire - uniters of the middle east; cradle of civilization; breadbasket of the world. From the Babylonian-Chaldeans, the Egyptians, Hittites, Scythians, and Medians, these people fought them all in an area that was the cradle of religions.
 
4. Han Empire - the flowering of chinese civilization. It is true that Qin Shi Huang united China, but the Han Empire defines it upto today. From the learning to the battles. China, a land where the Prophet of Islam commanded his followers to go seek knowledge!
 
5. Sassanid Empire - please. before them were the elamites and the Median empire. they define what it means to be persian today, and their history and culture flowers from Syria and Iraq to North India into Kazakhstan (all the -istan nations have cultural history from them) The arabs brought Islam, the Persians (persian language) was the vehicle to categorize it. The Ottoman Empire, Safavid Empire, and Mughal Empire trace their cultural links through the Persians
 
5. Roman Empire - combining greek learning with their own brand of military culture. destroyed the Carthiginian Empire, Selucid Empire, Kingdom of Pontis, and the Greeks. Ironically fell at the hands of Germanic tribesman and a new religion.
 
6. Mauryan Empire - the founder of a united India, his dynasty ruled an empire as big as the Mughal Empire. brought together and united all the Kingdoms and States of India. His empire is also credited with present Hinduism. under Asoka, Hinduism and Buddhism fused to produce a more spiritual and less aggressive religion. Spread culture to greater India i.e. Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, etc.
 
7. Ottoman Empire - understand what you may, there was a time when the Christian world was afeared of the "Turgis Mohammadan barbarians". Ever praying for Prester John from the East to help them destroy the Turks, this empire saw the destruction of the Byzantine-Late Roman Empire as well as Bulgaria, Greece, SouthEaster Europe, North Africa, the Arabs and put the Hapsburg Empire to war. If ther Safavids werent so treacherous, the Ottomans would have taken over Europe by now, and the Islamic University of Berlin would be calling the adhaan 5 times a day.
 
8. Spanish Empire - kicked out the Mohammadean Moors, instigated the Crusades, and discovered a world for conquest - the sole reason why the European powers rose in the first place. As weak as you feel it was: 1500-1900. 400 years of conquest.
 
9. British Empire - why english is the most spoken language today, yet England is an islan smaller then Germany. the sun never sets on the British Empire. it is the father of the American Empire of modern day.
 
10. Mongol Empire: broken into 4 khanates: Ilkhanid, Golden Horde, Chagatai, and Yuan - this empire is responsible for the further flowering of Islamic, Persian, Chinese, and Russian Empires. Came in as conquerors, left as educated elite. Their conquest caused havoc, at the same time caused communication and movement. Spanned the Timurid and Mughal Empires.
 
-------------------------------
hats off to:
 
11. Russian Empire - the empire that just wont die. destroyed the Golden Horde and began expansion east. came to be late middle ages backwater to conqueror of nations. changed policies multiple times, and seems to be rising once again. 1450 - present. Fought the Germans, British, French, and the Americans. fell at the hands of the Afghans. rising again.
 
13. Aztec-Mexican Empire - took in the knowledge f the Mayans combined with their own sophisticated military knowledge. Mimicing Rome of Europe, Aztecs of America came from North Mexico. fell under conquest of the Spanish.
 
13. American Empire - came to be from europes backyard to the world platform in 1900 after Spanish-American war and conquest of Phillipines. First began conquering nations like the Iroqouis, Arawak, and other American Indigineous First Peoples. expansion began east to west, then Mexico, Phillipines, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. 1776-2007(present)
 
14. Tang Empire - Han united and defined China, the Tang began a military imperialism reaching all the way up to the Caspian Sea. Shaped and modified world events and remained the other SuperPower during the Islamic Empire. Sphere of influence spread to modern day Southeast Asia, North and South Korea, and Japan.
 
15. Mali Empire - under Timbuctu learning and education flourished. read the chronicles of european and arabs about this empire. The worlds gold came from here. Conquering the Ghana Empire, the Mali Empire spread its influence from the Atlantic Ocean to Chad. From Morocco to the coast of Benin. Famous ruler Mansu Musa made the Hajj journey and offset the price of gold in the Mamluke Empire for 12 years through his generosity; severly affecting prices in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jul-2007 at 17:00
The Romans are no doubt the greatest empire in history
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  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jul-2007 at 19:37
At the time of the great empires,Britain,Ottoman,Spanish,Mongol,Persian ,you name it,there was always another empire to challenge its power,none was ever the all powerfull empire,people say the British was the Greatest,and at its peak i agree it was the greatest,but by no means alone ,or doing as it pleased.There was en Ottoman empire also,an spanish,and a french one challengin its global power.
 
 
But in the history of humanity no empire can be even compared to the USA,its a global empire,unchallenged,Politically,militarily,economicaly,and culturaly.There is no other anywhere near it.The USA has an army buget biger then the rest of the world combined.It remains the master of technology.The world over speaks the language of the dollar,it controles world economy through the World Bank and the IMF.It keeps globalstability unchallenged through the NATO.It pull the strings on global affairs through the UN.That is that guys.America seams to be the last empire.
 
 
Forget about ancient empires,of which we have little sientific evidence and alot of biased historical opinions.They shouldnot count.The only one of the ancient ones serios enough seams to be the roman empire,the rest.........sorry guys.AS for the latter ones ,as i said they were always ONE OF MANY.


Edited by HEROI - 13-Jul-2007 at 19:38
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  Quote Josip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2007 at 07:38
Originally posted by HEROI

But in the history of humanity no empire can be even compared to the USA


As an empire? From military standpoint? No, I disagree. Romans lasted for 1000 years, USA is what, not even 300 years and It's already on a decline.

The USA has an army buget biger then the rest of the world combined


The budget doesn't determine the winner. Barbarian hordes did not have a budget of a Roman empire, yet they won.

IMO, China will overrun USA, and USSR kept USA in tie (when it comes to military). Yes USSR lost because their economy system is utter crap, but still. Also, USA has a good geographic position, which does mean a lot.

The world over speaks the language of the dollar


I think you mixed USA with UK.

Forget about ancient empires,of which we have little sientific evidence and alot of biased historical opinions


It's enough of scientific evidence for everyone who wants to see.
As far as "scientific evidence" goes, some people dont even believe USA was on the moon, that islamists smacked down two towers, etc etc. So much about scientific evidence.

And come on, give me a break, USA can't even beat the freakin Iraq, what on earth are you talking about? Sure, they can nuke it, but then again there are other nuclear powers in the world too.

USA flourished because of their geographic position. That's about it. Unlike the USA, Roman empire had to increase boundaries every now and then, or at least had to defend itself. USA can't do that. They are stuck where they are. Whenever USA goes and tries to spread the influence outside of their secure geographic position, they are met with overwhelming odds. Sure, lot of Vietnamese died, but in war of attrition America is losing long-term just as Roman empire lost. In Iraq we have what, 3600 dead and over 20,000 wounded? Something like that. In few years alone. Few years!!! And with the help of Iraqi police. If USA actually started the conquest, how long would it last before they crumble, both economically and military? Look at the expenses of the Iraq war, do you seriously think that american economy can support this over extended period of time?

They shouldnot count


And why should america count? In ancient times it was more difficult to conquer huge regions because there was no aircraft, no mechanization which can move fast (such as Nazis at the start of operation Barbarossa for instance)... there were no satellites etc.

How can you even compare USA to that? Yes, strictly speaking, USA has more influence on the world now, than let's say Alexander had, but that's not how one should judge the greatest empire. The greatest empire is judged based on the historical context, based on period of time etc etc.

If you're saying that USA is the greatest empire simply because it's the newest, then Im gonna say no, the greatest empire is Alpha Centaury owning few M-class planets.
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  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2007 at 08:45
Josip,i did not try to explain your favorite empire.As i told you,as far as ancient empires go,there is nearly no evidence at all let alone evidence for whom wants to see,i want to see and i have not seen any evidence.
 
 
Now i explained that America is the greatest ever because its power is unchallenged globaly,it is the first time in human history that an single state or empire,call it what you like,runs the global affairs from all aspect of life,through political,economical,military,culturaly.thats it man!
its challenge is only regionaland sporadic.
 
And international english is the language of the dollar not the language of the UK.Get your facts straight man,its ridiculus to claim otherwise.The international language is the language of dominant market power not an selective choise.
 
 
And by the way ,the USA is not at war with IRAQ,but in IRAQ.
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  Quote Josip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2007 at 09:01
What exactly evidence do you seek? That is, what do you not believe into?

And by the way ,the USA is not at war with IRAQ,but in IRAQ.


Oh yes sorry, you're right. Tehnically, the USA conquered Iraq, installed puppet regime, and is no no longer in war with Iraq (ie official regime) but with resistance movement, and every mercenary who comes to Iraq and wants a piece of an american.

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  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 09:12
Originally posted by HEROI

At the time of the great empires,Britain,Ottoman,Spanish,Mongol,Persian ,you name it,there was always another empire to challenge its power,none was ever the all powerfull empire,people say the British was the Greatest,and at its peak i agree it was the greatest,but by no means alone ,or doing as it pleased.There was en Ottoman empire also,an spanish,and a french one challengin its global power.
 
 
But in the history of humanity no empire can be even compared to the USA,its a global empire,unchallenged,Politically,militarily,economicaly,and culturaly.There is no other anywhere near it.The USA has an army buget biger then the rest of the world combined.It remains the master of technology.The world over speaks the language of the dollar,it controles world economy through the World Bank and the IMF.It keeps globalstability unchallenged through the NATO.It pull the strings on global affairs through the UN.That is that guys.America seams to be the last empire.
 
 
Forget about ancient empires,of which we have little sientific evidence and alot of biased historical opinions.They shouldnot count.The only one of the ancient ones serios enough seams to be the roman empire,the rest.........sorry guys.AS for the latter ones ,as i said they were always ONE OF MANY.



hahaha...sorry i laughed a h for these post...US can not conquer Afganistam,Vietnam,Iraq alone...US is no1 only economicaly...if war breaks US will surly not win(no one will becouse a nuclear war will destroy all)...Russia alone has enough nuclearpower to shift the Earth from it's orbit...
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  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 09:32
Untill there will be another state great enough to challenge US or any other great empire like Roman,Mongolian,Ottoman there will never be "the greatest empire"...the greatest empire have to conquer all the world(or the most) and quell every point of rebellion or resistance of other states...and have to be economicaly unchallenged.
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  Quote QueenCleopatra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2007 at 12:39
I think that the Romans deserve to be remembered as the greatest Empire of all.
 
Not only did Rome succeed in controlling and effectively running most what was then the known world with possibly the best formed and run army in the ancient world but theirs is a legacy that endures to this.
 
Without Rome many of the languages of Europe would not be spoken, we would have no great infrastructure nor governments as both are modern expression of Roman ideas, even some of our habits and mannerisms have their routes in Rome. The idea of Sporting arenas and and Theaters comes from the Classical world.
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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2007 at 17:25

How many times do I have to say this - this is a fruitless and profitless discussion - there are too many variables that are involved. On what criteria do you decide that an empire is "great"? And even then, the Criteria change throughout time. You simply cannot do it.

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  Quote LilLou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2007 at 19:42
Romans are too overated/.....
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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2007 at 03:31
Romans are too overated/.....
 
Please, they brought Greek culture and civilization to western Europe, they made huge strides in Architecture and industry, they created many of the basic priciples that we have today, they cemented the idea of the republic firmly in western counciousness and ruled literally the whole of the medditeranian basin. Their economic impact was felt from Western Africa to China - how is that overrated?
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  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2007 at 09:29
Has 'greatest' been defined in connection with this thread ?
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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2007 at 11:38
...Just what I've been saying, Peteratwar, for a long, long time...
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  Quote GR3Y077 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 05:18
FYI, in terms of China, T'ang was greatest (greater than Han) :) It was richer, had greatest cultural reach in Asia, and expanded Chinese influence deeper and well beyond Han. Its mostly why East Asia today bears similar appearance across many borders. In ancient times its probably culturally, relatively the closest thing to the modern United States.
 
Its military force more powerful than Han with lots of mounted nomadic cavalry and a specialized northern Chinese crop rotation soldier farmer system. 
 
In East Asia Chinese language became Lingua Franca from T'ang to modern times. Japan, Vietnam etc. Korea borrowed many words and those words are more similar to T'ang Chinese than modern Mandarin. Japanese Sumo, traditional architecture, clothing, even eating/sleeping on the floor actually originates from T'ang! T'ang's sphere of influence spanned East Asia, into modern day Uzbekistan and Northern India. It was the most multicultural China ever: had the biggest city in the world (over 800k people). There were immigrants and traders from many corners of the world. Buddhism, Islam, Judaism and Christianity were in China 1000 years ago. Although a Northern dynasty, Southern Chinese today all refer to themselves as 'Tang people' (rather than 'Han').
 
Han gave modern Chinese an identity and early framework 'the first'. But Tang was the greatest, in my opinion (and many others). It matched or surpassed Han in every way (read actual academic or reference articles for facts). 1000 years ago, the T'ang would be remembered by every subsequent dynasty as the one to live up to. For Chinese, it was the 'most glorious' :)
 
Population: 50-60 million
 
(p.s. I studied East Asian history along with my undergrad studies in sciences at one of the top East Asian study Universities University of Toronto)
-----------------------------------
Originally posted by Joe Boxer

Most of your lists are based on cultural reasons. Mine, in terms of influence and legacy:
 
1. Arab Empire - can anyone argue with this? I mean really. They didnt spread their food, nor their architecture. They spread their religion and language all over the world. From Spain to Indonesia; Kazakhstan to Tanzania. Everyone follows a modified version. Christianity spread slowly, Islam spread within 100 years.
 
2. Egyptian Empire - we fall praise to their legacy to this day. Their temples and kings are mentioned in our holy books and religions. The first doctor: Imhotep, to the longest lasting dynasties.
 
3. Assyrian Empire - uniters of the middle east; cradle of civilization; breadbasket of the world. From the Babylonian-Chaldeans, the Egyptians, Hittites, Scythians, and Medians, these people fought them all in an area that was the cradle of religions.
 
4. Han Empire - the flowering of chinese civilization. It is true that Qin Shi Huang united China, but the Han Empire defines it upto today. From the learning to the battles. China, a land where the Prophet of Islam commanded his followers to go seek knowledge!
 
5. Sassanid Empire - please. before them were the elamites and the Median empire. they define what it means to be persian today, and their history and culture flowers from Syria and Iraq to North India into Kazakhstan (all the -istan nations have cultural history from them) The arabs brought Islam, the Persians (persian language) was the vehicle to categorize it. The Ottoman Empire, Safavid Empire, and Mughal Empire trace their cultural links through the Persians
 
5. Roman Empire - combining greek learning with their own brand of military culture. destroyed the Carthiginian Empire, Selucid Empire, Kingdom of Pontis, and the Greeks. Ironically fell at the hands of Germanic tribesman and a new religion.
 
6. Mauryan Empire - the founder of a united India, his dynasty ruled an empire as big as the Mughal Empire. brought together and united all the Kingdoms and States of India. His empire is also credited with present Hinduism. under Asoka, Hinduism and Buddhism fused to produce a more spiritual and less aggressive religion. Spread culture to greater India i.e. Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, etc.
 
7. Ottoman Empire - understand what you may, there was a time when the Christian world was afeared of the "Turgis Mohammadan barbarians". Ever praying for Prester John from the East to help them destroy the Turks, this empire saw the destruction of the Byzantine-Late Roman Empire as well as Bulgaria, Greece, SouthEaster Europe, North Africa, the Arabs and put the Hapsburg Empire to war. If ther Safavids werent so treacherous, the Ottomans would have taken over Europe by now, and the Islamic University of Berlin would be calling the adhaan 5 times a day.
 
8. Spanish Empire - kicked out the Mohammadean Moors, instigated the Crusades, and discovered a world for conquest - the sole reason why the European powers rose in the first place. As weak as you feel it was: 1500-1900. 400 years of conquest.
 
9. British Empire - why english is the most spoken language today, yet England is an islan smaller then Germany. the sun never sets on the British Empire. it is the father of the American Empire of modern day.
 
10. Mongol Empire: broken into 4 khanates: Ilkhanid, Golden Horde, Chagatai, and Yuan - this empire is responsible for the further flowering of Islamic, Persian, Chinese, and Russian Empires. Came in as conquerors, left as educated elite. Their conquest caused havoc, at the same time caused communication and movement. Spanned the Timurid and Mughal Empires.
 
-------------------------------
hats off to:
 
11. Russian Empire - the empire that just wont die. destroyed the Golden Horde and began expansion east. came to be late middle ages backwater to conqueror of nations. changed policies multiple times, and seems to be rising once again. 1450 - present. Fought the Germans, British, French, and the Americans. fell at the hands of the Afghans. rising again.
 
13. Aztec-Mexican Empire - took in the knowledge f the Mayans combined with their own sophisticated military knowledge. Mimicing Rome of Europe, Aztecs of America came from North Mexico. fell under conquest of the Spanish.
 
13. American Empire - came to be from europes backyard to the world platform in 1900 after Spanish-American war and conquest of Phillipines. First began conquering nations like the Iroqouis, Arawak, and other American Indigineous First Peoples. expansion began east to west, then Mexico, Phillipines, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. 1776-2007(present)
 
14. Tang Empire - Han united and defined China, the Tang began a military imperialism reaching all the way up to the Caspian Sea. Shaped and modified world events and remained the other SuperPower during the Islamic Empire. Sphere of influence spread to modern day Southeast Asia, North and South Korea, and Japan.
 
15. Mali Empire - under Timbuctu learning and education flourished. read the chronicles of european and arabs about this empire. The worlds gold came from here. Conquering the Ghana Empire, the Mali Empire spread its influence from the Atlantic Ocean to Chad. From Morocco to the coast of Benin. Famous ruler Mansu Musa made the Hajj journey and offset the price of gold in the Mamluke Empire for 12 years through his generosity; severly affecting prices in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East.
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  Quote GR3Y077 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 11:39
Originally posted by Joe Boxer

Most of your lists are based on cultural reasons. Mine, in terms of influence and legacy:
 
1. Arab Empire - can anyone argue with this? I mean really. They didnt spread their food, nor their architecture. They spread their religion and language all over the world. From Spain to Indonesia; Kazakhstan to Tanzania. Everyone follows a modified version. Christianity spread slowly, Islam spread within 100 years.
 
2. Egyptian Empire - we fall praise to their legacy to this day. Their temples and kings are mentioned in our holy books and religions. The first doctor: Imhotep, to the longest lasting dynasties.
 
3. Assyrian Empire - uniters of the middle east; cradle of civilization; breadbasket of the world. From the Babylonian-Chaldeans, the Egyptians, Hittites, Scythians, and Medians, these people fought them all in an area that was the cradle of religions.
 
4. Han Empire - the flowering of chinese civilization. It is true that Qin Shi Huang united China, but the Han Empire defines it upto today. From the learning to the battles. China, a land where the Prophet of Islam commanded his followers to go seek knowledge!
 
5. Sassanid Empire - please. before them were the elamites and the Median empire. they define what it means to be persian today, and their history and culture flowers from Syria and Iraq to North India into Kazakhstan (all the -istan nations have cultural history from them) The arabs brought Islam, the Persians (persian language) was the vehicle to categorize it. The Ottoman Empire, Safavid Empire, and Mughal Empire trace their cultural links through the Persians
 
5. Roman Empire - combining greek learning with their own brand of military culture. destroyed the Carthiginian Empire, Selucid Empire, Kingdom of Pontis, and the Greeks. Ironically fell at the hands of Germanic tribesman and a new religion.
 
6. Mauryan Empire - the founder of a united India, his dynasty ruled an empire as big as the Mughal Empire. brought together and united all the Kingdoms and States of India. His empire is also credited with present Hinduism. under Asoka, Hinduism and Buddhism fused to produce a more spiritual and less aggressive religion. Spread culture to greater India i.e. Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, etc.
 
7. Ottoman Empire - understand what you may, there was a time when the Christian world was afeared of the "Turgis Mohammadan barbarians". Ever praying for Prester John from the East to help them destroy the Turks, this empire saw the destruction of the Byzantine-Late Roman Empire as well as Bulgaria, Greece, SouthEaster Europe, North Africa, the Arabs and put the Hapsburg Empire to war. If ther Safavids werent so treacherous, the Ottomans would have taken over Europe by now, and the Islamic University of Berlin would be calling the adhaan 5 times a day.
 
8. Spanish Empire - kicked out the Mohammadean Moors, instigated the Crusades, and discovered a world for conquest - the sole reason why the European powers rose in the first place. As weak as you feel it was: 1500-1900. 400 years of conquest.
 
9. British Empire - why english is the most spoken language today, yet England is an islan smaller then Germany. the sun never sets on the British Empire. it is the father of the American Empire of modern day.
 
10. Mongol Empire: broken into 4 khanates: Ilkhanid, Golden Horde, Chagatai, and Yuan - this empire is responsible for the further flowering of Islamic, Persian, Chinese, and Russian Empires. Came in as conquerors, left as educated elite. Their conquest caused havoc, at the same time caused communication and movement. Spanned the Timurid and Mughal Empires.
 
-------------------------------
hats off to:
 
11. Russian Empire - the empire that just wont die. destroyed the Golden Horde and began expansion east. came to be late middle ages backwater to conqueror of nations. changed policies multiple times, and seems to be rising once again. 1450 - present. Fought the Germans, British, French, and the Americans. fell at the hands of the Afghans. rising again.
 
13. Aztec-Mexican Empire - took in the knowledge f the Mayans combined with their own sophisticated military knowledge. Mimicing Rome of Europe, Aztecs of America came from North Mexico. fell under conquest of the Spanish.
 
13. American Empire - came to be from europes backyard to the world platform in 1900 after Spanish-American war and conquest of Phillipines. First began conquering nations like the Iroqouis, Arawak, and other American Indigineous First Peoples. expansion began east to west, then Mexico, Phillipines, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. 1776-2007(present)
 
14. Tang Empire - Han united and defined China, the Tang began a military imperialism reaching all the way up to the Caspian Sea. Shaped and modified world events and remained the other SuperPower during the Islamic Empire. Sphere of influence spread to modern day Southeast Asia, North and South Korea, and Japan.
 
15. Mali Empire - under Timbuctu learning and education flourished. read the chronicles of european and arabs about this empire. The worlds gold came from here. Conquering the Ghana Empire, the Mali Empire spread its influence from the Atlantic Ocean to Chad. From Morocco to the coast of Benin. Famous ruler Mansu Musa made the Hajj journey and offset the price of gold in the Mamluke Empire for 12 years through his generosity; severly affecting prices in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East.
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  Quote Dream208 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 17:34
Dear GR3Y077 :
 
The mere fact that Tang Dynasty failed to surpass Han Dynasty's population shows that Tang was not necessarily better than Han in every aspect. Many scholars do question about authenticity of Tang's early historical record, namely Jan-Guan era under Li Shi-Ming. And it was not until the thrid generation of Tang rules (especially during the regime of Empress Wu) that Tang was able to surpass its predecessor - Sui Dynasty's economicl achivement (statistically speaking).
 
No doubt that many Chinese today does fancy about the glory of Tang. But most of them, such as my family, call themselves as Han people. The term Tang Ren (Tang people) was never as common as Han Ren (Han people), even in Southern China.


Edited by Dream208 - 24-Jul-2007 at 17:46
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  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 21:46
Arab Empire all the way.
 
i understand peoples feeling of Rome or Tang; however i feel Islam's outreach has been more prevalent then either Rome or Tang.
 
Yes Rome controlled half of Europe and North Africa, and yes Tang controlled everything from the Caspian Sea to the Pacific Ocean (and influenced Japan and Korea). However, for any empire to diffuse its socio-economic principles all over the world, its heritage and culture, thats a very powerful thing.
 
I would have placed the Christian empire as the primary world empire, but there was never such a thing. Atleast not a Centralized Empire.
 
The Islamic Empire 625-1225 influenced from Spain to Indonesia, Russia to Zanzibar. People speak arabic without knowing its meaning. They live by dietary principles, the prayer, etc.
 
Hence, my reason for Islamic-Arab Empire as number one.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 22:00
Originally posted by Mughaal

I would have placed the Christian empire as the primary world empire, but there was never such a thing. Atleast not a Centralized Empire.
 
The Islamic Empire 625-1225 influenced from Spain to Indonesia, Russia to Zanzibar. People speak arabic without knowing its meaning. They live by dietary principles, the prayer, etc.
 
But for exactly the same reason you gave for not putting "Christian Empire" as number 1, the same reason applies to "Arab/Islamic Empire". By the time of the Abbasid Caliphate, the Empire was fractured into competing factions and could not be considered one state (just like Europe in the Imperial Age). So the cut off date for that particular "empire" as unified is 750 CE.
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  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2007 at 22:13
If i could reedit my list. There are multiple criterias, but i want to judge by legacy of each civilization. Meaning, how much of a world impact has it really made?:
 

1. Islamic-Arabic Empire

2. Egyptian Empire

3. Han Empire

4. Achemanid Empire

5. Greek Empire

6. Roman Empire

7. Mauryan Empire

8. Sassanid Empire

9. Spanish Empire

10. British Empire

11. Russian Empire

12. Tang Empire

13. Mongol Empire

14. American Empire

15. Mali Empire

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