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Yugoslavia: The avoidable War

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  Quote Jay. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Yugoslavia: The avoidable War
    Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 22:59

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5860186121153047571& amp;q=yugoslavia

[Part one]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6371060303901674397& amp;q=yugoslavia

[Part two]


A documentary which traces crutial mistakes made by the west helped lead to the unessacary break-up of Yugoslavia in 1991, culmianting in the devestation NATO bombing campagin in 1999. Very interesting.

Special thanks to: YUGO! For finding the film for me.

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2011 at 21:24
If the UN had intervened earlier and forced the Serbs, Croats and Albanians to do a population exchange in the disputed territory (Serbs live in one part, Croats in another, Albanians get the rest) there would have been much less bloodshed. It's obvious that nationalists can't get along like civilised people
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2011 at 21:51
I think that the break was unanavoidable /most lamentably/, because:
1 - Yugoslavia was composed by ethnicities with different history /The Croats and Slovenes were a part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Serbs and Bosnians - of the Ottoman Empire, for like 5 centuries those ethnicities underwent very different influences, and established different economic and cultural development and expectations/ and different self-image, and only the respect that Tito had made it work while he was alive.

2 -Also, for whatever reason, Serbia was not well economically developed during communist time, the economic development was done in Croatia and Slovenia. The Serbs were the political and military muscle, the Croats and Slovenes the economic power - which was non-harmonious relationship, and this laid out the base for the grimy events that happened later. Even now there is significant difference between how Slovenes see Serbs, /I don't know much for vice versa/ and how Serbs see themselves, so the split was unavoidable, sooner or later.

Edited by Don Quixote - 26-Dec-2011 at 00:48
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2011 at 02:54
Behind this "war"stands only one thing Don:How do they can take money&property?That was basic synopsis of bloody screenplay had been seen by all of us on TV also trough our personal lives dramas.From this point of view i can say:Coordination was better than best,Hollywood production movie..45 Years they have created actors with Partisan's cinematography and gave them chances they could be killed among themselves. Nobodies money and property including banks,over night became someones without a penny in their pockets.They called this "privatization",but I call this "Biggest robbery in 20th century".Why did need a war?They had been hidden by the war.People that could have been against it(robbery supported from state X-men's structures) could be also vanished,on "war" front or "accidentally" of course.(last case has drawn himself in bucket of water in prison's toiletShocked).
Western countries approved this cause of system's structural changes.Did they make mistake or bingo?
Truth has always two sides of coin.

Edited by medenaywe - 08-Jan-2012 at 14:53
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2011 at 03:18
Well, I personally would like it better if Yugoslavia stayed together, and I abhor the bloody thing that happened; I never supported the war, not would I ever support it - it was a tragedy of enormous scale, enormous life etc loss...the stigma of ethnic cleansing now hangs over the Balkans too. I was talking only about why I think the split of Yugoslavia was unavoidable, not about the way it happened.

The way it happened was tragic and the West waited too long before entering, then doing piece-meal....it was an awful thing. I think there was no reason to wait - the Cold War was over, no one needed split Yugoslavia anyway, I don't see here geopolitics playing a part - so why did they wait I cannot explain. On the other hand they couldn't make the Yugoslavia stay together - this would be against the democratic principles.

May be I can put my thought in this way - the split was unavoidable, the war was avoidable.


Edited by Don Quixote - 26-Dec-2011 at 03:21
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2011 at 03:35
money makes the world goes around:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkRIbUT6u7Q
Yes after they have reached money&property integration process could be continued!Wink
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2011 at 07:13
From what I could tell the Serbs were trying to strong arm everyone else within Yugoslavia and assert their domination, and they were determined to use military force to do so. It was probably unavoidable the split because of these conditions. The war was probably avoidable as I believe all wars are, but when military force is applied it makes it less so, and this is what we saw from the Serbs.  
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2011 at 21:17
The Yugoslavian communists might have been able to prevent the split if they could successfully suppress existing Balkan cultures and create a new pan-Slavic identity, as the Soviets did. However, this would have been impossible after the Cold War ended
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2011 at 23:38
Even the USSR fell apart though.
I don't think it's possible to create a new or a single identity - cultural roots go deep, and people have the right to keep them.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2011 at 06:22
It happened in USSR same "movie",different production.It happens in Middle East now.Children of She-wolf are rising!Why do Balkan has so many countries?Why do SSSR either?What they did establish communism for?WW2=ethnic  cleanse,communism,post communism=ethnic cleanse....Answers we need!
Your statements above are approval of cleanse.Is it not the same with people's destiny?Sorry old Roman's destiny!
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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2012 at 13:56
Originally posted by Nick1986

If the UN had intervened earlier and forced the Serbs, Croats and Albanians to do a population exchange in the disputed territory (Serbs live in one part, Croats in another, Albanians get the rest) there would have been much less bloodshed. It's obvious that nationalists can't get along like civilised people

It is a lot more complicated than that. 
What are the disputed territories? Where to exchange the population? Where to draw the border? 

The international community could've tried to force everybody to negotiate on a delimitation followed by agreed deportations, but that would have reached a complete failure as well, as nobody actually agrees what territory is whose. Confused

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

From what I could tell the Serbs were trying to strong arm everyone else within Yugoslavia and assert their domination, and they were determined to use military force to do so. It was probably unavoidable the split because of these conditions. The war was probably avoidable as I believe all wars are, but when military force is applied it makes it less so, and this is what we saw from the Serbs.  

Separatist tendencies overran pretty much all corners of SFRY, regardless of the Serbs' intentions to keep it as a whole. 

Besides, I think it's pretty obvious masses of Serbs were led by similar segregation and separatist tendencies; it is only that they presented their defense of a Greater Serbia through the defense of Yugoslavia (which was for them precisely that). 

The dissolution of Yugoslavia did not come as a result of the war, the war had come as a result of it, so it would be improper to revert the conditions and results. Most of the fighting was handled in civil wars in independent nations, as remnants of unresolved issues as a result of the breakup, and not as part of a major civil war of a Federation that was already dissolved long ago. The war in Slovenia had lasted 10 days, the war in Croatia a couple of months and the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina was also comparatively brief; there was no war in Macedonia. 

P. S. I'd like to add, if the border between constituent republics were ethnic, there would have been no war and Yugoslavia would've dissolved just like Czechoslovakia and/or the USSR. And that's were the true key is. 

USSR political: 


Ethnic:


Czechoslovakia:


And ethnic I couldn't find, but save for the Hungarian minority down along the Slovakian border, it was pretty much ethnic. 

And not Yugoslavia, political:'



And now ethnic: 


Duh. I think that anyone who though Yugoslavia could've dispersed without a years-long bloody conflict with mass ethnic cleansing was completely ignorant...I'm convinced most of the foreigners who were observing the happenings in SFRY did not even bother to look at the ethnic map, let alone investigate a bit about the peoples' histories. 
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  Quote nickherc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2014 at 04:55
Originally posted by Nick1986

If the UN had intervened earlier and forced the Serbs, Croats and Albanians to do a population exchange in the disputed territory (Serbs live in one part, Croats in another, Albanians get the rest) there would have been much less bloodshed. It's obvious that nationalists can't get along like civilised people

You can't just move people, they're not bricks. So that certainly wouldn't work, trust me. Being from Slovenia, I knew the mentality of people in Yugoslavia and no one would leave it's home and go a few hundred kilometers away.

The only hope for Yugoslavia was its military. It should have overthrow Milosevic in Serbia and control the break up of Yugoslavia.

Serbs of Croatia should get autonomy.
Bosnia, which was mixed beyond belief (one village was serbian, the village next muslim, the village next croatian) - some sort of joint government.
Kosovo should go to Albania.

And that would be it. But the military was to heavy under the influence of Milosevic, war was unavoidable.


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