Does Greece have ottoman traces???

Ellin

I'm sure it's hard to distiguish the geographical origins of certain foods. Many ethnicities have borrowed ethnic dishes over the centuries. So it's not wrong to say that food 'A' belongs to both ethnicity 'B' and 'C'. While we are on this topic I would like to hint that the dumpling known as 'Manti'/ 'Mandu' was prepared by central asians and east asians. It may have made its way west into the middle east and balkans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mant%C4%B1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandu_%28dumpling%29

I didn't write it, food historian Alan Davidson did.

 

 

Originally posted by The Hidden Face Bulldog, first off all, I respect your efforts, you defend what you believe in, and you are at least able to find the sources on Internet supported your claims. However, I am wondering one thing about your claims, do you think that Turkish cuisine is mainly from Turkic cuisines? Is Humus,  for instance -which is a food from Antakya-Antep-Tarsus region like Baklava and well-known in Cyprus, some Greek islands, Syria, Israel etc- a Turkic food? Let's google it.

Originally posted by Hidden Face do you think that Turkish cuisine is mainly from Turkic cuisines?

hidden face,i am from İzmir and i have never seen greek culture in Ege Province...

Originally posted by EGETάRK hidden face,i am from İzmir and i have never seen greek culture in Ege Province...

Edited by akritas - 12-Nov-2006 at 07:02

Ellin nice signature.....

Elinn
I was going to mention where were the ovens of these Turkish nomads, for baking baklava, but noticed there weren't any to begin with.
But how funny and coincidental that the Turks needed to refine the process and start baking them once in contact with the Greeks who were "baking" baklava for eons earlier.

It would be better if you actually researched before you write.

Turks had ovens and would build ovens everywhere they went. Bread and baked foods have an important role in Turkic cuisine. They used "Tandirs" and stone/earthenware ovens. These are used across Central Asia. Turkmenistan for example has over 100 types of bread and in addition many pastry based dishes, Chureks, Boreks, peshmeh, ishlik etc etc    


Elin
Would I be safe to assume that the crusades finished just before the birth of the Ottoman empire, so there goes your theory about the baklava (in it's current form) beginning in the Ottoman kitchens right?

You would be safer to assume the reality that the Crusades were fighting against the Seljuks and the Turkic Beyliks in Anatolia and the Middle East who had entered after the Battle of Malizgirt. The Turks had been in the middle east since the 8th Century.

Your quote completely supports what I have been stating.

The Crusaders bought back these dishes with them.

Now, Europe was in contact with Greece for thousands of years, it also had contact with the Middle East. However, after the arrival of Turks into the area all these new dishes seem to have made their way across, strange isn't it


---The Horizon Cookbook and Illustrated History of Eating and Drinking though the Ages, [American Heritage:New York] 1968 (p. 690)

This is from 1968 and used what was available then, the latest research prooves otherwise


Elinn
Point is, Greeks knew about carpet weaving well before you guys came along.

You shoot yourself in the foot with your source.

Your admitting that Greeks came into contact with Carpet weaving via the Persians.

Turks had Carpet weaving and their own style which they had developed thousands of years ago.

Turkish and Persian Carpet's are known internationally, they have different styles, the Turkish knot and Persian knot, Persian uses more human designs, Turkish uses more Geometric and symbolic designs.



Altay the historic homeland of Turks is home to ancient carpets, woven using the Turkish knot and geometric patterns as they are still done today.


Fragments of the second nap carpet (VI century B.C.) were found on the left bank of the Karakol river (Gorny Altai, Russia) of the second Bashadyr barrow in 1950. After careful examination of these carpets S. Rudenko came to a conclusion that the technique of making these carpets was different. The Pazyryk carpet was weaved on the basis of the Turkic technique of knotting and the Bashadyr carpet was made on the basis of the Persian technique. Thus, S. Rudenko admitted that the Pazaryk carpet was made by ancient Turkic tribes. Moreover, the archaeologist believed that the carpet was made on a horizontal loom. Looking at the design of carpets, one could surely get convinced that the technique of making the Bashadyr carpet is close to the Persian technique and the technique of making the Pazaryk carpet is close to the present Turkmen technique. It should be added that Turkmen women still weave carpets on horizontal looms.

Turkmen philologist A. Bekmuradov believes the Pazyryk carpet resembles the Yomud carpet by its composition (placement of central ornaments and harmony of colours), and 24 central ornaments symbolize the split of Gunns, and later Turkmen-Oguz, into 24 tribes. The same opinion is shared by some other Turkmen historians.

Nejet Diyarbekerli writes that horses with saddle-clothes and tassels on their back pictured on the Pazyryk carpets could be found even nowadays in everyday life of Turkmen tribes living in Anatoly and Yuruk Aimak (small region) in Taur mountains (Anatoly). The same saddle-clothes could be seen in Turkmen-Seljuk miniatures. He also writes "there is no doubt that the Pazyryk carpet with its square division serves as the basic pattern for a general composition of the Oguz carpets.... This design is the basic pattern for the octagon of Seljuk design and ornaments on present Turkmen carpets. That kind of the carpet design could be often seen on Turkmen carpets such as Teke, Afghan Ersary, which still exist."

Turks were weaving carpets in the Altay region thousands of years ago.


Greeks arn't renownd for their Carpets, were are these Greek carpets, what is the Greek style, history, symbols, designs huh? where are they all.


About Yoghurt, Galen can thank the Turks its accepted as a Turkic contribution to gastronomy, Yoghurt is a Turkic word.

Yoghurt was introduced into Europe by Turkic Nomads migrating into Europe in 2nd century AD.

Galen knew about it after 2nd Century AD


Elinn
Ancient Greek cuisine is much like modern Greek food. They ate bread with olive oil, lots of fruits, vegetables and nuts, feta cheese, yogurt and fish.

They had no knowledge of Yoghurt and White Cheese.

Everybody can eat fruits and nuts, it doesn't require culinary skill.


Elinn
As for doners and kebabs and the like, the Greeks were skewering meat since time immemorial.

Great for them but if you think Kebabs and Doner is merely skewering meat your again mistaken.

There are many type's of Kebab, there are many types of Doner, the preperation, ingrediants, cooking method etc are very important.

You can't just cut meat and stick it on a skewer, it would be almost in-edible as the fats and muscle tissues make it to tough.

Turkic people had mastered this art due to their nomadic lifestyles in the Steppes were there was an abundance of lifestock.

Don't take it to heart Ellin, give credit were its due hehe, everytime you eat these dishes remember to thank those who introduced it to you.

Edited by Hellios - 12-Nov-2006 at 13:17