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Persian words in Hindi
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Cywr View Drop Down
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Posts: 6003 		  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Persian words in Hindi
    Posted: 23-Apr-2005 at 19:02
I understood what you said, but i don't think you understand what i said.

The Aryan invasion/migration theories were/are supposed to explain part of the spread of Indo-European languages, nothing to do with the fantasies of European Imperialists.
But, genetics does not support migrations as recent as initialy proposed, and linguisticists these days are generaly of the opinion that the diffusion of Indo-European languages would have happened much earlier anyways (anywhere from 6000 to 12,000+ years ago IIRC), ruling out 'Aryans' in the sense that you speak of, or at the very least, pushing back the date by a few millenia (making Max Mullers 1500 BC date useless).
The two main hypothetical areas of origin are Anatolia (supported by the 'Anatolian is the oldest of the IE languages' and 'defusion by peacefull farmers' schools of thought), or central Eurasian steppes (the horsewarriors school of thought).

By 'European Colonialism', you mean the notion entertained by some of the British ruling elite that they were the new ruling caste, which tended to draw from Max Mullers take on the theory.
There is a whole universe of theories regarding both the hypothetical and vaugly defined Aryans, and proto-Indo-Europeans in general, and the above is just one of them.
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Posts: 171 		  Quote magavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2005 at 23:53

Originally posted by Cywr

I understood what you said, but i don't think you understand what i said.

The Aryan invasion/migration theories were/are supposed to explain part of the spread of Indo-European languages, nothing to do with the fantasies of European Imperialists.
But, genetics does not support migrations as recent as initialy proposed, and linguisticists these days are generaly of the opinion that the diffusion of Indo-European languages would have happened much earlier anyways (anywhere from 6000 to 12,000+ years ago IIRC), ruling out 'Aryans' in the sense that you speak of, or at the very least, pushing back the date by a few millenia (making Max Mullers 1500 BC date useless).
The two main hypothetical areas of origin are Anatolia (supported by the 'Anatolian is the oldest of the IE languages' and 'defusion by peacefull farmers' schools of thought), or central Eurasian steppes (the horsewarriors school of thought).

By 'European Colonialism', you mean the notion entertained by some of the British ruling elite that they were the new ruling caste, which tended to draw from Max Mullers take on the theory.
There is a whole universe of theories regarding both the hypothetical and vaugly defined Aryans, and proto-Indo-Europeans in general, and the above is just one of them.

Listen I'm agree with many of your points, But you cannot seperate "Arya" from Vedas. The hitties of anatolia and Sakas of Iran were not called aryan and didn't spoke indo-eupean language before vedas this not possible. All these tribes have been called aryan after vedas so aryans come from india and emigrate from there with their aryan language and religion. this is the more logic way. The first aryans were darkskin. 
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Posts: 121 		  Quote Behrouz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2005 at 16:42
Originally posted by magavan

Listen I'm agree with many of your points, But you cannot seperate "Arya" from Vedas. The hitties of anatolia and Sakas of Iran were not called aryan and didn't spoke indo-eupean language before vedas this not possible. All these tribes have been called aryan after vedas so aryans come from india and emigrate from there with their aryan language and religion. this is the more logic way. The first aryans were darkskin. 



And where exactly is the proof of this west-ward immigration?
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Posts: 171 		  Quote magavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2005 at 18:09
I'm sorry but i don't see another theory. just a pacific and slow emigration of aryans from india
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Posts: 410 		  Quote Jazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2005 at 20:25
Originally posted by magavan

I'm sorry but i don't see another theory. just a pacific and slow emigration of aryans from india


Only to Persia, or Europe as well??
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Posts: 171 		  Quote magavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2005 at 21:40
as well by a slow and pacific spiritual emigration
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Posts: 121 		  Quote Behrouz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2005 at 23:47
Originally posted by magavan

as well by a slow and pacific spiritual emigration


Historical theories have to be supported by proofs, they can't be based on your personal opinions. Is there archeological proof of Aryans moving west-wards from India to Iran? Is there for example a clay which has on it written the accounts of these travels or a mention of India being the originating country? Until I see something other than your opinion I have to assume you've been just talking to too many indian researching with some kind of a bias.


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Posts: 171 		  Quote magavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 07:45

Originally posted by Behrouz

Originally posted by magavan

as well by a slow and pacific spiritual emigration


Historical theories have to be supported by proofs, they can't be based on your personal opinions. Is there archeological proof of Aryans moving west-wards from India to Iran? Is there for example a clay which has on it written the accounts of these travels or a mention of India being the originating country? Until I see something other than your opinion I have to assume you've been just talking to too many indian researching with some kind of a bias.

And by your side you've got no theory about an aryan immigration from Iran to India. Your theory is only based on Max Muller and his AIT. This theory is completly false. In anycase Vedas and sanscrit script are more oldest than avestan and zoroastrism. 

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Posts: 121 		  Quote Behrouz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 09:30
Originally posted by magavan

Originally posted by Behrouz

Originally posted by magavan

as well by a slow and pacific spiritual emigration


Historical theories have to be supported by proofs, they can't be based on your personal opinions. Is there archeological proof of Aryans moving west-wards from India to Iran? Is there for example a clay which has on it written the accounts of these travels or a mention of India being the originating country? Until I see something other than your opinion I have to assume you've been just talking to too many indian researching with some kind of a bias.

And by your side you've got no theory about an aryan immigration from Iran to India. Your theory is only based on Max Muller and his AIT. This theory is completly false. In anycase Vedas and sanscrit script are more oldest than avestan and zoroastrism. 



You have a huge problem of reading and comprehension of other people's posts. I said that I don't believe any kind of major immigration has taken place, Aryans have always been the name of people who lived in Iran. Aside from Iran, there has been no evidence of existance of aryans anywhere else, not in India, not in Europe.

Now , if sanskrit is older or not is no significant, what makes you believe that Aryans are actually people of Indian origin who settled in Iran?
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Posts: 171 		  Quote magavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 10:08
I have no problem to understand  your posts. I repeat again and again that your theory is based on a racial fact. It can not works cuz "arya" is a spirital term who appears first in Vedas. I don't say that indians are the true aryans, I say that each humankind has  an aryan spirit, Each religions come from Arya.  , Iran propagated the aryan culture to the west (europe, greece..) India to the East (China, Thailand, Cambogia...). In the old ethnicity of Aryavaeja: Iran and India made one. I have seen that Vedas were written in Afganistan. Iran and India are indisociable. But i still believe that sanscrit was the first aryan language.
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Posts: 121 		  Quote Behrouz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 13:40
On the contrary you DO have problems understanding other people's posts, whether you admit it or not.

You said "And by your side you've got no theory about an aryan immigration from Iran to India. Your theory is only based on Max Muller and his AIT", explain how that's the same or even somehow connected to my theory that no immigration happened at all?

Now, I don't know what you've been smoking because you're trying to mix history with your own spritual beliefs and the two don't exactly go together. Aryan is a term for Iranians to refer to themselvse, just like Americans call themselves Americans and Arabs call themselves Arabs.

"I repeat again and again that your theory is based on a racial fact"
Now I understand if English is not your first language, it isn't my first either, but you can't really discuss matters with others if you don't know the language fairly well.  You said my theory is based on a racial fact, now if it's based on a fact, then why would it be a theory? It's proven already, it's based on a fact!

Whether or not Arya (meaning noble or whatever it used to mean) was a term reffering to a certain behaviour(or culture) in the beginning, doesn't mean anything. The term was later used by Iranians to refer to themselves, so Aryan found a new meaning which was "the people who live in Iran zamin" regardless of them acting noble or not. 


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Posts: 171 		  Quote magavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 14:46

Of course English is not my first language, I live in France but you can understand what I say, C'est sur que si vous habitez Montral, vous etes bilingue.

Listen I think that India and Iran made One, Vedas were written in Afganistan(betwen Iran and India).

the title of your  topic:"Persian words in Hindi " is WRONG, because it speaks about an Aryan immigration from Iran to India.

Make some reseach about Vedas, it was the first aryan religion and book. It seem logic for me that  all the aryan etchnicity started by this religion so by the sanscrit.

In anycase, Iran zamin means Aryavaeja, means Aryavarta, means Iran/ India/ Afganistan/ Pakistan
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 18:29
Persian words in Hindi is probably referring to the modern Persian loan words.  Farsi/Persian was the language of the Mughal dynasty after all.
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Posts: 121 		  Quote Behrouz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2005 at 13:19
Yes, as Zagros mentioned, what I mean is during arab and  mughal invasion many of these words have entered the hindustani language. So no, it's not at all about Aryan Invasion theory or any kind.

Also to my knowledge zoroasternism is based on Gathas now if you can show some proof that Gathas are based on Vedas you might have some case.

Also to my knowledge Iran zamin does not include India, Iran zamin is located at the west of Turan, which will logically not incluade india, maybe parts of pakistan but not india.
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Posts: 171 		  Quote magavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2005 at 17:30
Iran zamin= aryan zamin= aryavaeja=iran, indi, pakistan, tajikistan...
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Posts: 121 		  Quote Behrouz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2005 at 19:58
Originally posted by magavan

Iran zamin= aryan zamin= aryavaeja=iran, indi, pakistan, tajikistan...


Please include sources in which Arya Vaeja is said to include india.
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2005 at 07:10
He forgot Afghanistan.
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Posts: 171 		  Quote magavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2005 at 09:19

Originally posted by Behrouz

Originally posted by magavan

Iran zamin= aryan zamin= aryavaeja=iran, indi, pakistan, tajikistan...


Please include sources in which Arya Vaeja is said to include india.

please behrouz stop to be ignorant, arya Vaeja in avestan mean Arya Varta in sanscrit. Stop to seperate india from iran. Yes afghanistan also.
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Posts: 121 		  Quote Behrouz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2005 at 11:29
Originally posted by magavan

Originally posted by Behrouz

Originally posted by magavan

Iran zamin= aryan zamin= aryavaeja=iran, indi, pakistan, tajikistan...


Please include sources in which Arya Vaeja is said to include india.

please behrouz stop to be ignorant, arya Vaeja in avestan mean Arya Varta in sanscrit. Stop to seperate india from iran. Yes afghanistan also.



Look, I don't exactly find just your words credible enough, if you are claiming something is true, you must have credible sources proving it, you own personal observation doesn't hold merit. I'm not trying to offend you, I just expect real sources not hearsay.
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Posts: 171 		  Quote magavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2005 at 12:49
This is an evidence that airya vaeja and arya varta have the same conotation: www.futurism.freeservers.com/
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