Greatest Dynasties.

Originally posted by Infidel I wil go with the Osmans (Ottomans) whose empire lasted for 600 years! Clearly very underrated...

That's not a dynasty that's a Turkish tribe. Dynasty means that every emperor/king is a relative of the previous one, usually son, or brother

Originally posted by Sublime Porte Originally posted by Vorian Originally posted by Infidel I wil go with the Osmans (Ottomans) whose empire lasted for 600 years! Clearly very underrated... That's not a dynasty that's a Turkish tribe. Dynasty means that every emperor/king is a relative of the previous one, usually son, or brother   See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Dynasty

I stand corrected. I have heard of many violent coups in the Ottoman empire so I thought that the ruling dynasty had changed

Agh... Good arguments all around.  If this were the early medieval era I'd say the Capetians, because they managed not to tear themselves apart for three hundred years and were able to go from one of the smallest landholders to legitimate landholders with lots of money and power.  Without them, the future of the French monarchy would have been quite different.

Yet that's not what we're talking about, so... I'd have to say the Ottomans or the Habsburgs. 

Quick question because I'm too lazy to look it up: Hohenzollern = off shoot of Habsburg, or their own dynasty?  They were their own, weren't they? 

Oh, good grief. *looks it up anyway* Ah, my intuition was right.  They were their own dynasty.  Not that I was going to nominate them.  That line didn't turn out too well.

I know we consider direct lines to be in the dynasty (the offspring of the line's first ruler, and the rulers after them), but doesn't it get a bit blurry in European history?  For instance, Wilhelm II was the grandson of Queen Victoria and the cousin of Nicholas II and George V at the time of WWI (though he was related to Nicholas through Frederick Wilhelm III).  At what point do they stop being dynasties and start being an unholy mess of incest and with little or no distinguishable qualities?


Edited by AdamantFire - 17-Jul-2008 at 16:48

The Ottoman dynasty from its establishment till present day can trace descendancy directly back to Ertugrul Ghazi 1198-1281 the leader of the Oghuz Turks Kayi clan. Ertegrul Osman Osmanogullu is todays pretender to the title of the Ottoman Empire.

Tudor's weren't that great. And Henry VIII is overrated in your mind, I dare say... 

Actually, you didn't give a good reason why Henry VIII is an excellent monarch. Plus, the fact that you don't use punctuation, makes it seriously difficult to read what you write anyways...

And yes, I'm 16, but my mind is far beyond my years... hehe...

Henry VIII did all he could to get an heir, and to weaken the position of the Church when it was needed, but he had a range of excellent people to support him, so the success would have to depend on them also. 

Hapsburg France? I think you are mixing up some periods. France in the 16th was ruled by the Valois, was it not? 

The number three is due to a mostly calmed down internal politics - if there would have been a strong house who would have thought they could be king, they would have taken the chance. So, this was more due to the deaths of the nobility in the previous years. 

I believe that the main thing that public likes about him is the many wives, without them, he would have ruled just as well (though the heir question comes a bit more important). Still, his defining factor was marrying six times. 

sorry meant the conflict between hapsburgs and france typo

As regarding the pope this is how i understand it

best buddies with England Henry awarded title defender of the faith as a result of his reposte to Luther in 1525

However due to the sack of Rome by Charles V the pope was unable to grant Hnery VIII his divorce (Catherine was his auntie and the pope his prisinor) 1529

eventually the pope excomunicated Henry after his break with rome  and prenounced him a heritic and in the 1530-40s sucessed in a time in turning most of Europe against England hence the cleaves marrige, which I bleive exemplifices that reality of the threat because why would Henry marry someone who he discribed as a flanders mare, and couldn't bring himself to sleep with  if the  threat was not all that serious

this continued until mary graught england back to catholisism

hope this helps but I am trying to renember stuff I studied 6 months ago so might be a litle rusty

No it was definatly to form an allaince with the duke of cleves and other protestant states in Germany to try and counter act the catholic alliances arranged by the pope with france and spain, then when relationships between the two nations deteriotated and the alliance was no longer needed she was divored, i bleive this is the common preception by most histrians sorry I have no links / referances to give u try anything by starkey he is quite an authority of Henry VIII