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Jewish Nation in Khazar
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Posts: 2419 		  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jewish Nation in Khazar
    Posted: 10-Jan-2007 at 12:47
But why would a bunch of Turkics want to convert to Judaism?


Dan is right, supposedly the King of the Khazars invited a representative of the Caliphate(or whatever islamic empire was in power then) and of the Byzantine Empire to a meeting. During this time he asked the christian which would be more acceptable if he converted to Judaism or Islam, the christian said Judaism. Then he posed the same question to the muslim who said that it would be more acceptable if the Khazar King was a jew instead of a christian. After that he then announced that since they both agreed he should be jewish he would adopt that as his religion.
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2007 at 18:01
Why would a Turkic or anybody else join any other religion? most nations today have converted to other religion somewhere in their history.
 
In that era, there were alot of dogmatic Empires who were waging campaigns against "heretics", minorities and people of other religions like in the Roman and Sassanid Empire's. Khazar's in contrast were pragmatic, they didn't percieve minorities or other religions as a threat. Soon alot of Jewish migrations entered the Khazar lands knowing that there was religous tolerance. Also the Radhanites had close relations and Khazar members who were making a mint of the known world's trade-routes.
 
Historically speaking, Turkic and Jewish have had good relations, actually taking into context the environment it wouldn't be an exageration to say great relations.
 
Are there other examples of empires with Judaism as the official language  outside of the Israel/Palestine region? I heard there was one in Yemen?
 
 
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Posts: 490 		  Quote Dan Carkner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2007 at 18:22
Do you mean religion, not language?
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Posts: 2419 		  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2007 at 21:37

Are there other examples of empires with Judaism as the official language  outside of the Israel/Palestine region? I heard there was one in Yemen?


Yes, and I also take it you mean religion.


The immigration of the majority of Jews into Yemen appears to have taken place about the beginning of the second century C.E., although the province is mentioned neither by Josephus nor by the main books of the Jewish oral law, the Mishnah and Talmud. According to some sources, the Jews of Yemen enjoyed prosperity until the sixth century C.E. In the 3rd century C.E. a Himyarite king named Abu-Kariba Asad-Toban (c. 390 - 420 C.E.) converted to Judaism and was successful in spreading the religion throughout the region. Even more dramatic was the conversion of Abu-Kariba's grandson, Zar'a, who reigned from C.E. 518 to 525. Legend ascribes his conversion to his having witnessed a rabbi extinguish a fire worshiped by Arab magi, merely by reading a passage from the Torah over it. After changing his religion, he assumed the name Yusef Ash'ar, but gained notoriety in history by his cognomen Dhu Nuwas.

It was around the 3rd century that the ruling family Himyarites converted to Judaism. Jewish rule lasted until 525 CE, when Christians from the Aksumite Kingdom of Ethiopia took power in Yemen. After the advent of Islam, large numbers of Jewish communities converted en mass. Diasporic migrations of Yemeni Jews can also be traced through settlement patterns of Yemenis in general, such as the Ha-Redeye in East Africa.
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Posts: 407 		  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2007 at 07:29
There was also a Byzantine expedition during the reign of Basil II.

From wikipedia:
"

Although the power of the Khazar Khaganate had been broken by the Kievan Rus' in the 960s, the Byzantines had not been able to fully exploit the power vacuum and restore their dominion over the Crimea and other areas around the Black Sea.

In 1016, Byzantine armies, in conjunction with Mstislav of Chernigov, attacked the Crimea, much of which had fallen under the sway of the Khazar successor kingdom of George Tzoul, based at Kerch. Kedrenos reports that George Tzoul was captured and the Khazar successor-state was destroyed. Subsequently the Byzantines occupied the southern Crimea."
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Posts: 97 		  Quote arfunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2007 at 04:03
I've read Arthur  Koestler's book "The Thirteen Tribe". Here's a source about it.  
 
http://www.christusrex.org/www2/koestler/
"This book traces the history of the ancient Khazar Empire, a major but almost forgotten power in Eastern Europe, which in A.D. 740 converted to Judaism. Khazaria, a conglomerate of Aryan Turkish tribes, was finally wiped out by the forces of Genghis Han, but evidence indicates that the Khazars themselves migrated to Poland and formed the craddle of Western (Ashkenazim) Jewry..."
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Posts: 65 		  Quote Huncuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2007 at 06:42
Originally posted by arfunda

I've read Arthur  Koestler's book "The Thirteen Tribe". Here's a source about it.  
 
http://www.christusrex.org/www2/koestler/
"This book traces the history of the ancient Khazar Empire, a major but almost forgotten power in Eastern Europe, which in A.D. 740 converted to Judaism. Khazaria, a conglomerate of Aryan Turkish tribes, was finally wiped out by the forces of Genghis Han, but evidence indicates that the Khazars themselves migrated to Poland and formed the craddle of Western (Ashkenazim) Jewry..."
There isn't any aryan Turkic tribe,Turks are not aryan.We are Mongoloid with caucasoid blood.
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Posts: 97 		  Quote arfunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 07:28
Sorry Mr Muncuk I am not Mongoloid. There have been many Turkish speaking arian groups. To be a Turk cultırally is different than being a Turk
 genetically. I am a Turkish speaking person, but I am not Mongoloid. So I am not one of the people you call "we".
And the subject was Khazaria, not "your" race. So let's turn to the topic back. I suuest you to read the book. I want to discuss te book with te ones who have read it...
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 12:47
Originally posted by arfunda

Sorry Mr Muncuk I am not Mongoloid. There have been many Turkish speaking arian groups. To be a Turk cultırally is different than being a Turk
 genetically. I am a Turkish speaking person, but I am not Mongoloid. So I am not one of the people you call "we".
And the subject was Khazaria, not "your" race. So let's turn to the topic back. I suuest you to read the book. I want to discuss te book with te ones who have read it...


you are descent of those mongoloid nomads(wich every Turkish man would claim)

or you are just assimilated down the road(wich would noone I have ever met would addmit)

whthell is arian group.

the persian nomads got well not assimilated but integrated into the Turkic nomad population. the difference is well..... customes were addopted & such wich is clearly not the case with assimilation


cheers
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 12:58
well,It is absolute, Turks are not mongoloid. are we?
 
Also I am agree, what the hell is aryan turkish thing. It is funny, we have arian lover Turks.LOL 
 
Anyway, I think we Turks love ayrans more than arians.
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 13:05
Sorry Mr Muncuk I am not Mongoloid. There have been many Turkish speaking arian groups. To be a Turk cultırally is different than being a Turk
 genetically. I am a Turkish speaking person, but I am not Mongoloid. So I am not one of the people you call "we".
And the subject was Khazaria, not "your" race. So let's turn to the topic back. I suuest you to read the book. I want to discuss te book with te ones who have read it...
 
What the crap is this.
 
There are "NO" Turkic "Aryan" groups, what a load of bonoffi, there is no such thing as "RACE", there is just one race, no pure blood, no pure Aryan, no pure Turk. Infact we are all PURE HUMAN BLOOD LOL
 
Mongoloid is just a physical characteristic, there are Mongoloid looking, Caucosoid looking, Negroid looking Turks even these terms are way out of date.
 
Khazar's were a branch of the GokTurks.
 
Turks and Jews have had great relations since they first met. They have no historical problem, infact its funny, Jews and Turks who have had quite a few enemies have always been close and infact helped each other when the going got tough.
 
Also Turks and Jews are both Untermensch, sub-human degenerates, according to "Aryan Nazi's".
 
 


Edited by Bulldog - 26-Jan-2007 at 13:06
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Posts: 2408 		  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 13:41
Originally posted by arfunda

I've read Arthur  Koestler's book "The Thirteen Tribe". Here's a source about it.  
 
http://www.christusrex.org/www2/koestler/
"This book traces the history of the ancient Khazar Empire, a major but almost forgotten power in Eastern Europe, which in A.D. 740 converted to Judaism. Khazaria, a conglomerate of Aryan Turkish tribes, was finally wiped out by the forces of Genghis Han, but evidence indicates that the Khazars themselves migrated to Poland and formed the craddle of Western (Ashkenazim) Jewry..."


that theory wants to say that the todays "ashkenazi" Jews where actually those Khazarian jewish people. He includes that "aryan" crap to back up his theory because many ashkenazi Jews have mixed with europeans.

Arfunda, dont believe in "thirteen tribe" crappy theory's as this above. You know self that Turkic people where never "aryan" people.
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 15:19

Jews arn't "Aryan" either, well the lanuage is Semitic.

Here is a great site about the Khazar's
 
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Posts: 65 		  Quote Huncuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 15:06
Originally posted by Mortaza

well,It is absolute, Turks are not mongoloid. are we?
 
Also I am agree, what the hell is aryan turkish thing. It is funny, we have arian lover Turks.LOL 
 
Anyway, I think we Turks love ayrans more than arians.
Yes we are genetically mongoloid but our dna says we also have caucasoid genes,but race is a social thing.
 
I say again,we aare in altaic group,not aryan.


Edited by Huncuk - 28-Jan-2007 at 15:06
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Posts: 384 		  Quote Tar Szernd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 10:57
Hi!
 
The khazarian site is very interesting and full with good knowlidge.
 
But:
F.e. the khazars got these kind of rune script from the turks (540's-750's), they got it from the sogdians. It is truely in one part ogirinated from semian (jewish) sript, but not from the some in Khazarie living rabbis (more weren't threre in Khazaria till the converting).
 
And I write it again: maybe 1/5-1/6 of the people under the khazarian kagan rule had jewish religion.
 
TSZ


Edited by Tar Szernd - 30-Jan-2007 at 03:02
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Posts: 493 		  Quote Top Gun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 11:51
Originally posted by Mortaza

well,It is absolute, Turks are not mongoloid. are we?
 
Also I am agree, what the hell is aryan turkish thing. It is funny, we have arian lover Turks.LOL 
 
Anyway, I think we Turks love ayrans more than arians.
 
I don't understand it I thought aryans is Nazi bullsh*t what has this to do with turks
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 16:21
Top_Gun, there is a drink called "Ayran" a kind of yogurt drink you may have it in Israel aswell, Mortaza said
 
Mortaza
Anyway, I think we Turks love ayrans more than arians.
 
Anyway I agree with you, any Turk having some fetish for "Aryan" maryan mumbo jumbo is self-dellusionate as they were in the sub-human degenerate "Untermensch" list along with Jews and other of the Nazi's undesireables.
 
 
Tzar  http://www.khazaria.com/ has alot of different articles, I think its one of the best resources online for the Khazar's.
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Posts: 97 		  Quote arfunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 05:23
Let's talk about the terms in their context:
1. e.g. Arian: Do you think I talk about "Hitler's arian race" No, I don't. Arian is not a historical term consisting of Hindus, Sogdians,Iranian, Schtians, etc.
 
2. Many historical sources write that Turkish tribes and Sogdian/Iranian tribes intermarried and mixed. So a person today speaking Turkish and living in Anatolia and being a citizen of turkey may have similar genetic structure with a person of Iranian origin (So this is what I mean when I say "To be a Turk culturally is different than being a Turk  genetically"
 
3. "I am a Turkish speaking person, but I am not Mongoloid. So I am not one of the people you call "we". Because I am a Turkish speaking person living in Turkey who has Kıpchak, Rum and Armenian origins. I am not Mongolid genetically but I am a Turkish citizen. So can anyone say that Turks of Anatolia are all Mongoloid?
 
4. In genetical research articals the term "Turkish speaking groups"  is prefered because the mtDNA and Y chromosome researches show many different results os Turkish speaking people. So "being a Turk" is a cultural term, not the name of a race
 
Let's look at another topic:
 
Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 1:24pm

I have read somewhere that Scythian and Askenazian/Ashkenazi are ethimologically the same words. Scythians are Indo-european. Kurds are also Indo-Europeans and come from Meds. New genetical research results show that Ashkenazi Jewish male genes have similarities with Kurdish genes in the Middle East. Can we say that Hazarian population was a mixture of Jewish Turkish and Scythian populations?

Arfunda

 
I will continue later.  
 
 
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Posts: 97 		  Quote arfunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 06:57
 
 

"Jewish Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries

A collection of abstracts and reviews of books, articles, and genetic studies

This section is the most comprehensive summary of Jewish genetic data. In recent years, advances in genetic technology and the broadening in scope of genetic studies to encompass more ethnic groups have allowed scientists to come to more accurate conclusions. Nevertheless, not all questions have been answered fully, and followup studies are necessary. At the present time, it is known that Eastern European Jews have a significant Eastern Mediterranean element which manifests itself in a close relationship with Kurdish, Armenian, Palestinian Arab, Lebanese, Syrian, and Anatolian Turkish peoples. This is why the Y-DNA haplogroups J and E, which are typical of the Middle East, are so common among them. At the same time, there are traces of European (including Western Slavic) and Khazar ancestry among European Jews. Ethiopian Jews mostly descend from Ethiopian Africans who converted to Judaism, but may also be related to a lesser extent to Yemenite Jews. Yemenite Jews descend from Arabs and Israelites. North African Jewish and Kurdish Jewish paternal lineages come from Israelites. Additional research is necessary, and it will certainly take several more years to sort it all out. What we can say for sure is that Jewish Y-DNA tends to come from the Middle East, and that studies that take into account mtDNA show that many Jewish populations are related to neighboring non-Jewish groups maternally. All existing studies fail to compare modern Jewish populations' DNA to ancient Judean DNA and medieval Khazarian DNA, but in the absence of old DNA, comparisons with living populations appear to be adequate to trace geographic roots."

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Posts: 97 		  Quote arfunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 06:58
"Key findings:
  • The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into haplogroups J and E.
  • Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples such as Slavs and Khazars. The non-Israelite haplogroups include Q (typically Central Asian) and R1a1 (typically Eastern European).
  • Dutch Jews from the Netherlands also descend from northwestern Europeans.
  • Sephardim also descend, in a smaller way, from various non-Israelite peoples.
  • Georgian Jews (Gruzinim) are a mix of Georgians and Israelites.
  • Yemenite Jews (Temanim) are a mix of Yemenite Arabs and Israelites.
  • Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews, and Tunisian Jews are mainly Israelites.
  • Libyan Jews are mainly Berbers.
  • Ethiopian Jews are almost exclusively Ethiopian, with little or no Israelite ancestry.
  • Palestinian Arabs are probably partly Israelite. "
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