a Mod. as you see , calimed the map is political propaganda & is Fiction!!! then topic moved to amusement & Perspolis was threated for warning & he is indebted for this kindness
This map is about Kurdish ethnicity living in south-east of Turkey, north-west of Iran + northern iraq and there is "kurdistan" sticked on it. The map that merced12 did post is about TURKIC SPEAKING PEOPLE in central asia, middle east and some in eastern europe.
i didnt understand why you did made a link between the map above and the "kurdish zone" map?
Since this map is fiction and contains political propaganda I moved it
to this forum. The last thing we need is another ethnic dispute over a
fictitious name in real countries.
a Mod. as you see , calimed the map is political propaganda & is Fiction!!! then topic moved to amusement & Perspolis was threated for warning & he is indebted for this kindness
Quote:
Perspolis. Political propaganda is an offense contrary to codes of
conduct at AE. I was gentle with you. You should count your lucky stars
that I brought this thread to the Historical amusement forum and not
given you a warning.
now, Here at first post, we see some data (really in font & size, Merced12 at least you could edit that) from
http://www.turkiye.net/
seems as ISP or web hosting or somthing like that. I wonder, Why Persepolis one was Fiction & political propaganda but not this one??!! I wonder, Britanica is Fiction & political but http://www.turkiye.net/ ??!! are ISPs in Turkey considers as Academy?? I guess yes!!! bcuz britanica is Fiction & political propaganda.
I said my view & keep looking for yours What is your Opinon?? was mod. decision right in both topic?? if yes, why does not act for it??? If wrong why did hapean for that withot any excuse???
I hope Mods be honest & I hope they don't ban me for this protest
Did I asked about Merced map?? I can understand the difference among Kurd & Turk I said: Why Persepolis one was Fiction & political propaganda but not this one??!! I wonder, Britanica is Fiction & political but not http://www.turkiye.net/ ??!! are ISPs in Turkey considers as Academy??
do you see it now?? or as Merced you clarify Turk releated topics are Indubitable & Kurd or Armenian or Greek one all are inaccurate as what we have in blacklisted topic.
Originally posted by DayI
i didnt understand why you did made a link between the map above and the "kurdish zone" map?
Since this map is fiction and contains political propaganda I moved it
to this forum. The last thing we need is another ethnic dispute over a
fictitious name in real countries.
a Mod. as you see , calimed the map is political propaganda & is Fiction!!! then topic moved to amusement & Perspolis was threated for warning & he is indebted for this kindness
Quote:
Perspolis. Political propaganda is an offense contrary to codes of
conduct at AE. I was gentle with you. You should count your lucky stars
that I brought this thread to the Historical amusement forum and not
given you a warning.
now, Here at first post, we see some data (really in font & size, Merced12 at least you could edit that) from
http://www.turkiye.net/
seems as ISP or web hosting or somthing like that. I wonder, Why Persepolis one was Fiction & political propaganda but not this one??!! I wonder, Britanica is Fiction & political but http://www.turkiye.net/ ??!! are ISPs in Turkey considers as Academy?? I guess yes!!! bcuz britanica is Fiction & political propaganda.
I said my view & keep looking for yours What is your Opinon?? was mod. decision right in both topic?? if yes, why does not act for it??? If wrong why did hapean for that withot any excuse???
I hope Mods be honest & I hope they don't ban me for this protest
Did I asked about Merced map?? I can understand the difference among Kurd & Turk I said: Why Persepolis one was Fiction & political propaganda but not this one??!! I wonder, Britanica is Fiction & political but not http://www.turkiye.net/ ??!! are ISPs in Turkey considers as Academy??
Originally posted by DayI
i didnt understand why you did made a link between the map above and the "kurdish zone" map?
& link is a Mod
Ok understand your problem, the map you quoted (kurdish zone map) whas in a topic about "Kurdistan", so they didnt speak of "kurdish people living ..." but of kurdistan self. So afterall it would be the same if merced posted a "turan map" and asked "is this true", or claimed it tobe true.
Also www.turkiye.net is a webhosting site, i dunno what it has todo with this topic?
do you see it now?? or as Merced you clarify Turk releated topics are Indubitable & Kurd or Armenian or Greek one all are inaccurate as what we have in blacklisted topic.
23,500,000 in Iran (1997). Population includes 290,000 Afshar, 5,000 Aynallu, 7,500 Baharlu, 1,000 Moqaddam, 3,500 Nafar 1,000 Pishagchi, 3,000 Qajar, 2,000 Qaragozlu, 130,000 Shahsavani (1993). Population total all countries: 24,364,000.
Region
East and West Azerbaijan, Ardebil, Zanjan, and part of Markazi provinces. Many in a few districts of TehranTehran. Some Azerbaijani-speaking groups are in Fars Province and other parts of Iran. Also spoken in Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Turkey (Asia), USA.
Alternate names
Azeri, Torki
Dialects
Aynallu (Inallu, Inanlu), Karapapakh, Tabriz, Afshari (Afshar, Afsar), Shahsavani (Shahseven), Moqaddam, Baharlu (Kamesh), Nafar, Qaragozlu, Pishagchi, Bayat, Qajar. Distinctive linguistic differences between the Azerbaijani of the former USSR (North) and Iranian Azerbaijani (South) in phonology, lexicon, morphology, syntax, and loanwords. Teimurtash (7,000 in Mazanderan; possibly the same as Teimuri, Timuri, Taimouri) and Salchug (in Kerman Province) may be dialects. Qashqa'i may be a dialect. Part of the Qizilbash merchant group speak the Afshari dialect, which is strongly influenced by Persian. The dialect spoken in Syria is different from Kirkuk of Iraq, and may be closer to Turkish (Osmanli) than to Azerbaijani. There is a gradual transition of dialects from Turkish to Azerbaijani from central to western Turkey.
Kirkuk City, Arbil, Rowanduz, towns and villages southeast from Kirkuk as far as Al Miqdadiyah, Khanaqin, and Mandali; also several places in the Mosul Region.
Dialects
Kirkuk.
Language use
They speak South Azerbaijani at home.
Language development
Many read Arabic or Kurdish. Low literacy rate in South Azerbaijani.
Comments
They are called 'Turkmen', or 'Turks', in Iraq and Syria. There is little literature. Muslim.
National language. 50% claim a good knowledge of Russian.
Language development
Roman script; Arabic and Cyrillic scripts in Afghanistan; Arabic script in Iran. Newspapers. Radio programs. Dictionary. Grammar. Bible portions: 18801982.
Comments
The so-called 'Turkmen' in Syria, and possibly Iraq and Jordan, actually speak an ancient form of Turkmen; so-called 'Turkmen' in Tibet may speak a different Turkic language. Desert. Agriculturalists: cotton; animal husbandry: sheep; carpet weavers; gas, oil workers. Muslim (Sunni).
Refugee group in Kabul. People called 'Turkomen' in Syria are Azerbaijani speakers. Sharp dialect differences. Probably mainly Ersari dialect in Afghanistan. Nomadic, cultivators, pastoralists; Persian lamb export, Persian rugs. Muslim (Hanafi Sunni), traditional religion.
Not a literary language in Iran. Many are seminomadic. Ethnic groups: Yomut, Goklan. Agriculturalists: cotton, wheat, barley; animal husbandry: cattle. Muslim (Hanafi Sunni and Shi'a).
Edited by merced12
http://www.turks.org.uk/ 16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
[kum] 282,000 in Russia (1993 UBS). Population total all countries: 282,554. Southern Dagestan ASSR, northern and eastern Caucasian plain. Also spoken in Kazakhstan, Turkey (Asia). Alternate names: Kumuk, Kumuklar, Kumyki. Dialects: Khasavyurt, Buinaksk, Khaikent. Dialects are apparently quite divergent. Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Western, Ponto-Caspian
in greece
Turkish
[tur] 128,380 in Greece (1976 WA). Thrace and Aegean regions. Alternate names: Osmanli. Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Southern, Turkish More information.
in macedonia
Balkan Gagauz Turkish
[bgx] 4,000 in Macedonia and Greece. Macedonian Gagauz dialect in the Kumanovo area, Yuruk dialect in the Bitola area. Alternate names: Balkan Turkic. Dialects: Macedonian Gagauz, Yuruk (Yoruk, Konyar). Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Southern, Turkish More information
Turkish
[tur] 200,000 in Macedonia (1982). Alternate names: Osmanli. Dialects: Macedonian, Dinler. Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Southern, Turkish More information.
Family of more than 20 Altaic languages spoken by some 135 million people from the Balkans to central Siberia.
The traditional division of Turkic is into four groups. The southeastern or Uighur group comprises Uighur, spoken mainly in Xinjiang, China; and Uzbek, spoken mainly in Uzbekistan, other Central Asian republics, and northern Afghanistan. The southwestern, or Oguz, group includes Turkish; Azerbaijani (Azeri), spoken in Azerbaijan and northwestern Iran; Crimean Tatar, spoken mostly in Ukraine and Uzbekistan; and Turkmen, used in Turkmenistan, northern Iran, and northern Afghanistan. The northwestern, or Kipchak, group includes Kazakh, spoken in Kazakhstan, other Central Asian republics, and western China and Mongolia; Kyrgyz, spoken in Kyrgyzstan, other Central Asian republics, and western China; Tatar; Baskhir, spoken in Bashkortostan and adjacent areas in Russia; Karachay-Balkar and Kumyk, spoken in the Russian Caucasus; and Karaim, with a few speakers in Lithuania and parts of southwestern Ukraine. The northeastern, or Altai, group comprises languages and dialects spoken in Siberia northeast of the Irtysh River and in adjacent parts of Mongolia, including Altai, Khakas, Shor, and Tuvan; and Sakha, spoken in Sakha (Yakutia) republic of Russia and adjacent areas. Distinct from all the other languages is Chuvash, spoken in Russia's Chuvash republic and adjacent areas. The earliest attestations of Turkic are a group of 8th-century funerary inscriptions of northern Mongolia, in a distinctive writing system called runic script, or Turkic runes. With the Islamization of nearly all Turkic peoples southwest of the Irtysh beginning c. 900, Turkic languages began to adopt the Arabic alphabet. Today the Latin alphabet and Cyrillic alphabet are more extensively used.
Edited by merced12
http://www.turks.org.uk/ 16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
oversates crimean tatar's. Crimea is majority russian, with just over 12.1% tatar
Digenis is right in pointing out the mistake in greece, there are turks in FYRoM and thrace. The two main centers are around Bitola and Strumica, but i wont say this is an exclusive list, here is a map from the Le Monde newspaper. If your map is to be believed it would say the turks in greece live west of reality and there is more in Nth greece than south bulgaria.
as you can see Merced12's maps are exagerated when compared to this map.
Karachy are over stated as are the Balkar. They should make up a thinner line across the North side of the ranges than they do in that map. Circassians are some how ignored within shared boundaries, like the karbadin.
The Kamyk is thinner and smaller and not exclusive while the Nogay again seems overstated in places yet dont make contact with the Kamyk which seems to happen in the other map. It looks like azeri, nogay and kamyk are interchangble.
Azeribijan ignores the Talyish in the south and lezgin in the north while completely understating the armanian reality to the west.
what about the Turkemen in Iraq? they dont get a mention yet smaller more obscure tribes that popuate in the thousands get a whole colour
23,500,000 in Iran (1997). Population includes 290,000 Afshar, 5,000 Aynallu, 7,500 Baharlu, 1,000 Moqaddam, 3,500 Nafar 1,000 Pishagchi, 3,000 Qajar, 2,000 Qaragozlu, 130,000 Shahsavani (1993). Population total all countries: 24,364,000.
Region
East and West Azerbaijan, Ardebil, Zanjan, and part of Markazi provinces. Many in a few districts of TehranTehran. Some Azerbaijani-speaking groups are in Fars Province and other parts of Iran. Also spoken in Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Turkey (Asia), USA.
Alternate names
Azeri, Torki
Dialects
Aynallu (Inallu, Inanlu), Karapapakh, Tabriz, Afshari (Afshar, Afsar), Shahsavani (Shahseven), Moqaddam, Baharlu (Kamesh), Nafar, Qaragozlu, Pishagchi, Bayat, Qajar. Distinctive linguistic differences between the Azerbaijani of the former USSR (North) and Iranian Azerbaijani (South) in phonology, lexicon, morphology, syntax, and loanwords. Teimurtash (7,000 in Mazanderan; possibly the same as Teimuri, Timuri, Taimouri) and Salchug (in Kerman Province) may be dialects. Qashqa'i may be a dialect. Part of the Qizilbash merchant group speak the Afshari dialect, which is strongly influenced by Persian. The dialect spoken in Syria is different from Kirkuk of Iraq, and may be closer to Turkish (Osmanli) than to Azerbaijani. There is a gradual transition of dialects from Turkish to Azerbaijani from central to western Turkey.
Kirkuk City, Arbil, Rowanduz, towns and villages southeast from Kirkuk as far as Al Miqdadiyah, Khanaqin, and Mandali; also several places in the Mosul Region.
Dialects
Kirkuk.
Language use
They speak South Azerbaijani at home.
Language development
Many read Arabic or Kurdish. Low literacy rate in South Azerbaijani.
Comments
They are called 'Turkmen', or 'Turks', in Iraq and Syria. There is little literature. Muslim.
National language. 50% claim a good knowledge of Russian.
Language development
Roman script; Arabic and Cyrillic scripts in Afghanistan; Arabic script in Iran. Newspapers. Radio programs. Dictionary. Grammar. Bible portions: 18801982.
Comments
The so-called 'Turkmen' in Syria, and possibly Iraq and Jordan, actually speak an ancient form of Turkmen; so-called 'Turkmen' in Tibet may speak a different Turkic language. Desert. Agriculturalists: cotton; animal husbandry: sheep; carpet weavers; gas, oil workers. Muslim (Sunni).
Refugee group in Kabul. People called 'Turkomen' in Syria are Azerbaijani speakers. Sharp dialect differences. Probably mainly Ersari dialect in Afghanistan. Nomadic, cultivators, pastoralists; Persian lamb export, Persian rugs. Muslim (Hanafi Sunni), traditional religion.
Not a literary language in Iran. Many are seminomadic. Ethnic groups: Yomut, Goklan. Agriculturalists: cotton, wheat, barley; animal husbandry: cattle. Muslim (Hanafi Sunni and Shi'a).
Thos enumbers are way overstated. Turkmen population is 2% which equates to about 1.3 million and the Azari population is between 13-16 million of which more than half reside outside Azarbaijan. Also 25% of the population of Azarbaijan is Talysh and Kurd.
Well, Zagros, I suppose your'e referring to CIA World Fact Data; especially when talking about 2%. You're probably right. But there comes the Iranian numbers which say Turkmens are 2,000,000 and Azeris to be almost 25,000,000. Now, I'm not sure about Azeris. But only the Turkmen city Gonbad-e Qabus (Turkmen Kumbet) have got 1,000,000 in which 60 percent lives in villages who are completely Turkmens and 40 percet in the urbans. It is believed, out of 40 percent, almost 30 percent are Turkmens in the city; let's say 20 (I've been there many times; there are a lot of Turkmens, quite more than 20 percent). So, at least 800,000 from only Gonbad-e Qabus. There are also cities like Aq Qala, Kelala, Turkmen Port, Kumush Tepe that each of them have got more than 100,000. We should also take into account a larger number of Turkmens who live in villages.
Anyhow, we're just talking about probablity. Take care Zagros
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
These Altaic savages harbour pipedreams of reviving Turkic hegemony in
the Near East - but their time has long passed. Turks are no longer the
virile nomadic riders of the Steppes: civilization has made them weak
and domesticated - like all urban materialists. The Great
Turko-Mongolian warriors of Chinghiz Khan, Temur are but a distant
memory - whose achievements I hold in high esteem. The powerful of the
modern world who will hold sway will be decided by those who can
regress to the past, embrace their antecedents, and kill without
inhibition.
Sorry but I find your racist attitude disgusting and your vile ignorant use of the English language is disgracefull.
Turkic languages are beautiful and I'm a keen enthusiast to pick up knowledge about these people after their beautiful exhibitions which they displayed in London recently.
Your scrare-mongering attitude about the possibility of a Turkic pollitical Union is unbased.
Today there are 7 Turkic Republics, if they formed a Union similar to say the EU this is their choice and one which will be respected.
They are mostly non-extremist, forward looking and have ambitions to advance. The West today wants non-extreme democractic state's especially one's in which Muslims are a majority, the best place this can be envisioned is between these states (plus flowing energy resources).
Its a matter of economics, if they can muster the financial muscle they could easily set up a union of states, there's nothing to fear and no need to invent hysterical stories and paranoia's.
Read, "Sons of Conqueror's - The Rise of the Turkic World" a great read.
Regards
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
Racism implies the belief in the superiority of ones race, which I
don't believe. My use of English is coherent and concise. The beauty of
the Turkish language is a subjective matter - I personally find it very
ugly and crude. I am not "scare-mongering", but merely reflecting on
1000 years of Turkish domination in the Near East, which modern
pan-turkics, doubtless, would be eager to revive. In fact, Turkic
chauvanists, so-called "grey wolves" are very extremist. As far as your
assertion that "the West today wants non-extreme democratic state's",
is quite absurd, supposing that Muslim countries should do what the
"West" wants. Euro-centric garbage.
I don't have any personal enmity towards Turks, but I do oppose their
ambitions, as an Aryan, and will fight them accordingly. The strongest
shall survive.
I don't think their's anything more hilarious than blatent racist's trying to not only convince others but also decieve themselves that they're not.
Lord
but merely reflecting on 1000 years of Turkish domination in the Near East, which modern pan-turkics, doubtless, would be eager to revive.
I don't have any personal enmity towards Turks, but I do oppose their ambitions, as an Aryan, and will fight them accordingly. The strongest shall survive.
I'm sorry but have you read what you've just written.
There are all the hallmarks of extremism in this post.
1. You create the fictional enemy
2. You invent a paranoia that the fictional enemy want to occupy your land
3. You de-humanise Turks into a collective mass which you look down upon
Now, incase you don't have a map or atlas there are currently 7 Turkic countries if your Near-East include's Azerbaijan then there is no point them invading anywhere as they already have a state there.
Seen as though these countries exist there is no need for any war or invasion.
They dominated the Near East, well so did Arabs if we go back further so did Alexander the Great infact so-called Aryan's havn't dominated the area for at least a millenia or two so its pretty pointless scare-mongering about these people. In addition it would also be pointless fighting or trying to start a war as history repeats itself and you'll just unite them even more and most definately be heavily defeated. Anyway such discussion is completely far-fetched.
If these 7 countries start a pollitical Union what would you have against this? it doesn't concern you so I don't understand what all the hysterics are about.
As far as your assertion that "the West today wants non-extreme democratic state's", is quite absurd, supposing that Muslim countries should do what the "West" wants. Euro-centric garbage.
Its not absurd at all, there are two main super powers today well one definate one U.S.A and Uk back them to a large part.
Russia was a super power, still has alot of influence but seems to be declining.
Now, it doesn't concern me if your too proud to admit this but I'm a realist.
There are two options, "be used" or "use". Now there is a choice of Russia and U.S.A, the West wishes to see non-extreme and non anti-West state's especially among majority muslim countries. Russia however, would like to return to the days of the Russian Empire.
So in the case of Central Asia and the Caucauses collaborating with the West is in their interests everyone gets what they want except Russia.
Its not Euro-centric garbage its the reality, you cannot ignore and rise against the powerfull if your not in a strong position yourself, Muslim countries can "use" the West or they will be "used" they arnt currently in a position to rival its power.
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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