Israel vs Leban&#111;n, the sequel

Tsar

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Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 05:10

Aydin, ive read such views and there is truth in that timing but the one thing that i am still convinced is that isreal has decided to fight now not the hezbollah. Hezbollah and Iran havent judged this well and a managed crisis has now become a much bigger situation they were not expecting.

Putting up with those rockets is like setting off mousetraps as far as im concerned. It hurts but they will only have to do it once.

Then what happens to the irans' hezbi card?

edgewaters View Drop Down

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Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 07:26

Originally posted by pikeshot1600

And of course we all understand that Iran would never move against the interests of non-Shia entities that are (gasp) hosting infidels.�

Anything's possible, but worrying about Iran attacking other countries is totally absurd right now. It's not Iran that's been bombing the crap out of other ME countries lately ... it's the US and Israel. Those are the military adventurers, let's face reality and fact here, not fantasy what-if daydreams/nightmares.

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Tsar

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Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 09:06

Originally posted by edgewaters

Originally posted by pikeshot1600

And of course we all understand that Iran would never move against the interests of non-Shia entities that are (gasp) hosting infidels.

Based on the events of the last week or so, I agree, anything is possible.

Moving against the interests of others in the Gulf would not necessarily mean direct attacks; nor would moving against the interests of Russia, and by extension against the interests of others, in the Caspian basin require direct attacks. Iran does not have the conventional power at this time to do so. That is why the drive for strategic weapons systems with which Iran could dominate the two regions, and thwart, or make too difficult, policies or actions contrary to their strategic fanatsy.

What-if daydream = hoping for the best. (favored UN strategy)

What-if nightmare = continuing to do nothing about the Iranian mullah regime and its simulacra in Lebanon.

Hezbollah will be facing some reality. They don't even have the support of the Arabs anymore.

Edited by pikeshot1600 - 19-Jul-2006 at 09:09

�ok ge�

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Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 19:41

Originally posted by pikeshot1600

Hezbollah will be facing some reality. They don't even have the support of the Arabs anymore.

Actually most Arabs are divided between supporting Hizboullah in the recent escalation, or opposing its move in kidnapping the Israeli soldiers. What is for sure is that, Israel should not be sure that bombing Lebanese civilian infrastructure and civilians fleeing can gain them any sympathy or push more opposition against Hizboullah. What do you expect when Arabs watch those pictures for instance:

Civilian fleeing cars bombed as the resident of Ter Hafra village are asked to leave, Israeli planes hunt them down in hours of the call to evacuate the village.

Does this look to you a military site? A rocket launching site? is it even a building? Just a civilian car with children and families fleeing and shot down to have their bodies scattered on the road.

While Lebanese children are dying everyday through those bombs, a group of Israeli kids write down messages on these bombs!

D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.

bg_turk

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Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 15:55

Fleeing Israeli agression. A US marine helps children board a landing craft at Beirut.

Ultra Orthodox Jewish men pray for the end of the war on Lebanon's Hizbollah guerrillas by the grave of a renowned Jewish mystic, " the Holy Ari" also known as Rabbi Isaac Luria, in the northern Israeli town of Safed, one of Judaism's sacred places, July 20, 2006.

A Lebanese woman cries while carrying her baby during evacuation onto a UN boat

Edited by bg_turk - 20-Jul-2006 at 15:56

http://www.journalof911studies.com

hugoestr

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Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 18:01

Originally posted by pikeshot1600

Originally posted by edgewaters

Originally posted by pikeshot1600

And of course we all understand that Iran would never move against the interests of non-Shia entities that are (gasp) hosting infidels.

Based on the events of the last week or so, I agree, anything is possible.

What-if daydream = hoping for the best. (favored UN strategy)

What-if nightmare = continuing to do nothing about the Iranian mullah regime and its simulacra in Lebanon.

Hezbollah will be facing some reality. They don't even have the support of the Arabs anymore. [IMG]height=17 alt=Wink src="http://www.allempires.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>

Pike,

Reality: The U.S. doesn't have enough soldiers. We committed most of them to Iraq. We do not have the man power to take down Iran.

Reality: the U.S. is broke. We aint't got money. China is subsidizing Iraq, the war that bankrupt us to begin with. And the return on investment on that excursion was lousy.

Iran knows this, and takes advantage of this situation.

Who will fight against Iran? Who will pay for it?

Again, who will pay for it?

Thank Bush for invading Iraq. It is because of Iraq that we are unable to fight Iran.

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Tsar

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Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 17:48

hugo:

There are about 140,000 troops in Iraq. There are about 1,200,000 - 1,300,000 army, reserves and NG, and around 200,000 marine troops available. All volunteers, and with rotation, about 900,000 have had experience in Iraq.

The reality is you have been reading too much left wing gloom-and-doom press about how we are on the verge of insolvency. Hardly the case. Wait 50 years.

In any event, manpower is not the issue against Iran. Part of it is strategy. What needs to be done is to show the Sunni world that Iran is a threat to it. Iran needs nukes to be relevant, but if that happens, Sunnis in proximity are the losers, not us. Russia and India are threatened, not us. China's energy sources in central Asia are threatened, not ours. Europe's access to oil is threatened, not ours. Japan's oil is threatened, and Iranians are involved in NK missile "play therapy." We are not threatened by that, others are.

If, in fact, conventional means are not an option against Islamic Iranian imperial ambitions, then the alternative may have to be a strategic option. France has already warned Iran that she may use nuclear weapons in response to Iranian malfeasance. Israel - well, I ask you.

It is hardly desireable to contemplate such an option, but as the Japanese did, they may leave little choice. Messianic martyrs crave a beautiful death, and although that is useless, it can be arranged if necessary.

The solution is probably action by the population of the various groups in Iranian society who are not so inclined. The Iranians may have to stand for themselves if such a thing is to be avoided. Hopefully it will be before the nuke horizon, or we still face an Iran, even non-Islamist, with power over resouces and neighbors, some of whom are our allies and strategic partners.

This can't wait forever.

Edited by pikeshot1600 - 21-Jul-2006 at 18:16

Afghanan

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Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 18:50

ISRAELI CHILDREN SEND GIFTS TO LEBANESE CHILDREN:

Israeli girls write messages on a shell at a heavy artillery position near Kiryat Shmona, in northern Israel, next to the Lebanese border, Monday, July 17, 2006. (AP Photo/Sebastian Scheiner)

AND THE LEBANESE CHILDREN RECEIVE THEM:

The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Afghanan

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Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 18:51

Per the Admins discussion, my topic has been moved here. Your thoughts appreciated on how Israel and Hezbollah are indocrinating children to hate.

The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Komnenos

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Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 19:19

As shocking and disturbing as these pictures are, in the interest of balance one should post these of Palestinian children dressed as suicide bombers:

I'm sure I could have found pictures of Israeli children as victims of suicide bombings, but I'm sure we have seen enough already.

That both sides abuse children in their war efforts is obscene and inexcusable, but both sides do it.

The unilateral damnation of Israel is neither justified, nor will it bring peace in the region only one step further.

[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">

Lmprs

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Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 19:31

Originally posted by Komnenos

That both sides abuse children in their war efforts is obscene and inexcusable, but both sides do it.

There is a major difference.

Israel is a legal state, or so people think.

Hezbollah is just a terrorist group.

Edited by Feanor - 22-Jul-2006 at 04:30

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