Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Gabachachida
Janissary
Joined: 30-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
|
Quote Reply
Topic: What facts can u tell me about Columbus? Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 04:14 |
Well growing up he was Christoper Columbus, then i hear he is Cristobal Colon....Those that wish to rid the US of Columbus day, say he molested children and commited massive genocide...
Edited by Gabachachida - 04-Nov-2007 at 04:17
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 12:36 |
The name of Columbus is Cristoban Colon. It is not known where he was born but most evidences point to Genoa, however some other sources say he was Catalan. There is no evidence he ever wrote in Italian, and his Spanish is perfect.
His past is uncertain. Same say he could had Jewish roots because theirs contacts and also because the extreme devotion he showed in his life (New Christians or converse where usually more fanatically Catholic that regular Christians). There is evidence he saw himself as the second messiah whose goal in life was to spread christianity. He believed he was the second after Jesus!
He was an excellent sailor that earn his money drawing maps and that knew fully the technology of his time. He sailed all over Europe and he left evidence of visiting iceland. He also wrote he saw some "Indians" in northern Europe, probably Inuits. He is suspected to be a pirate and slave trader.
His achievements were extraordinary. If he had stopped after discovering Hispaniola, the world would have no doubt about him. He was really the man that fullfill the profecy of Seneca of open the chains of the Atlantic ocean.
However, his administration of the colony was a disaster. Abusses were widespread, and not only against the Indians but to Spaniards too, that were sumarily executed. The crown brough him in chains back to Spain. However, he has the opportunity to try again in further expeditions.
Colombus died forgotten and downplayed by his contemporaries in Spain.
A tragic character. In one side is a very possitive an extraordinary figure. In the other he carry in his shoulders the crimes of Europe. It is quite curious, though, that Americans and Canadians blame him for every crime in the Americas. That's false. Anglo Americans should be honest enough to carry theirs own cross of the crimes commited by theirs own ancestors. After all, North America was not colonized by Spain.
Edited by pinguin - 04-Nov-2007 at 12:39
|
|
red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus
Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 16:23 |
Americans and Canadians blame him for every crime in the Americas. That's false. Anglo Americans should be honest enough to carry theirs own cross of the crimes commited by theirs own ancestors. After all, North America was not colonized by Spain.
If your going to hate Anglos at least get it right- From Wiki--
North America
- New Spain: all or parts of present-day Mexico, Texas, California (Alta California and Baja California), Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma and New Mexico. In the 1819 Adams-Ons Treaty, Spain traded its claims in the Pacific Northwest north of the 42nd parallel (today's northern border of California) to the USA, in exchange for the USA's giving up of its claims south of that line. The Treaty also established border lines along the Arkansas River and the Red River.
- Spanish Florida: Modern-day Florida including parts of modern-day Alabama, Louisiana, and Mississippi.
- Louisiana, consisting of all or parts of the present-day U.S. States of Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Colorado, Idaho: Spain owned this territory from 17621800 and based its administration in New Orleans. The north and interior was only sparsely settled by French inhabitants and new immigrants. Nomadic Indians, newly horsed, made up most of the new residents on the Great Plains where Spanish control was confined to the south. A system of forts and frontier posts, inherited from the French, protected Spanish interests along the Mississippi as far north as Michigan.
Pinguin you display an ethnocentrism as destructive as any of the ideas you yourself despise.
Edited by red clay - 04-Nov-2007 at 16:24
|
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 16:37 |
Come on fellow. It is in the United States and Canada where people go to the streets to protest against Columbus Day. Besides, every time people mention the European invasion in North America they blame Columbus.
Blame the settlers of the Mayflower!
The Spanish territories of Mexico and Florida, the French of Lousianna or the Russian of Alaska don't count on that. They were conquered by the U.S. by force and/or money. If you get a new territory, you assume the responsability.
Edited by pinguin - 04-Nov-2007 at 16:38
|
|
red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus
Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 16:41 |
He was an excellent sailor that earn his money drawing maps and that knew fully the technology of his time. He sailed all over Europe and he left evidence of visiting iceland
Which is probably how he learned of the New World, seeing as how the Vikings and a few others beat him to it by 6-800 years.
For some people Columbus is a live wire. The last place to get facts about him or anyone else of a controversial nature is an open forum.
You would be best served by researching him on academic sites, getting the basics of his life and then coming here to discuss. If you have the basic facts first you can then tell if someone is blowing smoke up your **** or not.
|
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
|
|
red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus
Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 16:48 |
The Spanish territories of Mexico and Florida, the French of Lousianna or the Russian of Alaska don't count
|
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
|
|
Gabachachida
Janissary
Joined: 30-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 18:28 |
Originally posted by pinguin
. Anglo Americans should be honest enough to carry theirs own cross of the crimes commited by theirs own ancestors. After all, North America was not colonized by Spain. |
oh my, thats quite a statement. Its not usually the anglos in my observations that are blaming columbus, but the indigenous. And I carry no weight of my ancestors, neither those of England, Ireland, or those already native to America. I cant control my own family, how am i going to control those that died before i was even born. I control me.
|
|
red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus
Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 20:47 |
The only people who protest Columbus day are Indigonous peoples organizations, Amerindians. The fact that the Mayflower arrived almost 150 years later isn't important, facts don't seem to mean much to Pinguin.
The Spanish Mission system from New Mexico to Northern California didn't exist, because Spain didn't colonize NA? Balboa didn't rediscover the Pacific? I guess the Spanish Fort in St. Augustine Florida was a hot dog stand. Spain started the so called "European Invasion" but they are'nt responsible?
|
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 21:44 |
Originally posted by red clay
.... The fact that the Mayflower arrived almost 150 years later isn't important, facts don't seem to mean much to Pinguin.
The Spanish Mission system from New Mexico to Northern California didn't exist, because Spain didn't colonize NA? Balboa didn't rediscover the Pacific? I guess the Spanish Fort in St. Augustine Florida was a hot dog stand. Spain started the so called "European Invasion" but they are'nt responsible? |
Well, if it Spanish colonization of New Mexico, California and Florida is so important for "Americans" why they start to count since the Mayflower?
Come on. I just ask for a little bit of consistency.
The evils are blame on Columbus and the good things onto the pilgrims. Tell me about a ballanced worldview
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 21:46 |
Originally posted by red clay
...
Which is probably how he learned of the New World, seeing as how the Vikings and a few others beat him to it by 6-800 years.
...
|
Oh yes. Columbus also recorded "Indians" in northern places like Ireland.... probable Inuits. Which seem to have beaten Norses in discovering Europe by 2000 years .
|
|
red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus
Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 03:44 |
The original claim was "Spain never colonized North America" lets get back to that.
|
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
|
|
Gabachachida
Janissary
Joined: 30-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 03:56 |
ok the dinosaur on this side of the ring weighs in at 500lbs....the weird bird on the other weighing in at 72 lbs.....<ding> <ding> have at it boys!
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 13:27 |
Originally posted by red clay
The original claim was "Spain never colonized North America" lets get back to that. |
I'm talking about the responsability of the Anglosaxon civilization in its own issues. It is quite easy to put all responsability on dumb Columbus.
Now, that you northamericans have rewritten history (it was so disgusting Spain did anything for angloamericans) and claim Norses are the discoverers of North America... Blame Eric the Red and Leif Ericson, for godness sake!
|
|
Sun Tzu
Consul
Joined: 31-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 362
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 13:32 |
The name America actually comes from the explorer Amerigo Vespucci not Columbus, otherwise we might have ended up being called Colmbia.
|
Sun Tzu
All warfare is based on deception - Sun Tzu
|
|
Styrbiorn
Caliph
Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2810
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 14:40 |
Originally posted by pinguin
I'm talking about the responsability of the Anglosaxon civilization in its own issues. It is quite easy to put all responsability on dumb Columbus.
Now, that you northamericans have rewritten history (it was so disgusting Spain did anything for angloamericans) and claim Norses are the discoverers of North America... Blame Eric the Red and Leif Ericson, for godness sake! |
If people are blaiming Columbus, it's not because of the discovery itself, but because of what he did governing the early colonies, so I don't really see what your point is. * *and if people really do blaim him for discovering the Americas, they are really giving blaim for a stupid thing (akin to blaiming all deeds made by pyromaniac on the guy who invented fire).
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 15:00 |
Columbus paid his crimes alive. He was brought to Spain in chains. He was payed with indiference. He was forgotten.
An opportunist inscribe his name in the Western Hemisphere instead of himself!
However, no matter how much people try to mud his memory or erase it, he is still there and will always be. Because he did something extraordinary: he break the chains of the Ocean Sea.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 16:11 |
It is in the United States and Canada where people go to the streets to protest against Columbus Day. |
But it is not in the United STates where they renamed Columbus Day Indigenous Restinance Day and topple statues of Columbus on that day. I don't think dislike of Columbus is stronger or less strong in either Anglo or Latin America. In both parts of the continent there are both people who hate him and people who like him.
|
|
jdalton
Pretorian
Joined: 02-Aug-2007
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 166
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 19:23 |
Columbus day is not an official holiday in Canada. I don't know if it ever has been.
I mean really. He never came anywhere near Canada.
|
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 21:57 |
Originally posted by jdalton
Columbus day is not an official holiday in Canada. I don't know if it ever has been.
I mean really. He never came anywhere near Canada.
|
Leif Ericson was closer there . Blame him.
|
|
Gabachachida
Janissary
Joined: 30-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 03:01 |
so does anyone know about the child molestation charge? I thought that was unusual...since i had never heard of it before.
|
|