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Topic ClosedShould turkey be allowed into the EU?
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Poll Question: Should Turkey be allowed join the EU
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mico5bei View Drop Down
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Posts: 131 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Should turkey be allowed into the EU?
    Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 05:54
Turkey joining the EU is a very heated subject in Europe, one which most europeans tend to lean to the side of "over my dead body". Their reluctance could be attributed mostly to the resent rise in xenophobic feelings in Europe, especially towards Muslims. Also that many don't see Turkey as ever being a part of Europe, historically it being the divide between the Christian West and the Muslim East. But putting such emotional feelings aside, can Turkey's government adhere to the strict EU regulations for new member states in the forseeable future? Where it stands now, it definitly has a long way to go. I know that this forum boasts many Turkish members, I'd love to hear your views on the subject.
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Posts: 2347 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 07:39
Turkey has been waiting on the EU door for decades now ...

  • September 1959: Turkey applies for associate membership of the European Economic Community (EEC).
  • September 1963: An association agreement (known as the Ankara Agreement) is signed, aiming at bringing Turkey into a Customs Union with the EEC and to eventual membership. A first financial protocol to the initial agreement is also signed.
  • 14 April 1987: Turkey makes an application for full EEC membership.
  • 1995: Turkey-EU Association Council finalises the agreement creating a customs union between Turkey and the EU.
  • December 1997: At the Luxembourg Summit, Turkey is declared eligible to become a member of the European Union.
  • December 1999: EU Helsinki Council recognises Turkey as an EU candidate country on an equal footing with other candidate countries.
  • March 2001: The EU Council of Ministers adopts the EU- Turkey Accession Partnership.
  • September 2001: Turkish parliament adopts a major constitutional reform in order to meet the Copenhagen political criteria for EU membership.
  • August 2002: Parliament begins to introduce political and human rights reforms designed to meet the Copenhagen political criteria.
  • May 2003: The EU Council of Ministers decides on the principles, priorities, intermediate objectives and conditions of the Accession Partnership with Turkey.
  • October 2004: The Commission presents its Recommendation of the European Commission on Turkeys Progress towards accession along with its paper Issues Arising from Turkeys Membership Perspective.
  • 17 December 2004: The European Council defines the conditions for the opening of accession negotiations.
  • May 2005: Appointment of State Minister Ali Babacan as Chief negotiator with the EU.
  • June 2005: The Commission adopts its proposal for a revised Accession Partnership and a Communication on the civil-society dialogue between EU and Candidate countries. This communication sets out a general framework on how to create and reinforce links between civil society in the EU and candidate countries. The dialogue will have a special focus on Turkey, as the state of mutual knowledge is particularly weak with that country and misconceptions and concerns more widespread.
  • October 2005: Starting of the screening process concerning the analytical examination of the acquis.
  • December 2005: Adoption by the Council of a revised Accession Partnership for Turkey.
... it would be pretty strange to slam the door after all these years of emtpy promises for EU membership, wouldn't it?

Regarding the pros and cons of Turkish membership, I think the issue has been discussed so many times that all arguments about the "clash of civilization", "troyan horse", "EU double standards" have become cliches ...
BBC hosts a pretty good debates on the issue:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3683204.stm

I personally support Turkish EU membership but not at any cost.


Edited by bg_turk - 09-Jun-2006 at 07:40
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Komnenos View Drop Down
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Posts: 4361 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 07:57
There are, of course, dozens of threads on the very same topic in AE.
But with a fluctuating membership on AE, there might be some new insights.
As many of the threads have turned sour in the past, let's try and keep this one civil.
 
My opinion, if Turkey wants to join the EU and fulfills all the usual entry conditions, they're more than welcome.
The EU is a economic and political union, not a religious or cultural one, but a Muslim country in the EU would further enrich the cultural diversity and might bridge a gap that needs desperately to be brigded.


Edited by Komnenos - 09-Jun-2006 at 07:58
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Posts: 131 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 08:42
Turkey may have been waiting for EU membership for decades but I still don't belive it will furfill the requirements for membership anytime soon.  Unless Turkey completely forfills these requirements, it shouldn't be admitted. It must adhere to the same standards as all new members,  I don't believe Turkey will get to that level for quite sometime. I would give it another decade.......though i may be wrong.
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Posts: 2347 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 09:10
What exactly are these EU requirements? If it is all about human rights I fully support them, but it is not ... many EU states (most notably Greece and the Greek Cypriot Administration) are trying to impose additional requirements such as the recognition of the Greek Cypriot Administration as the sole legitimate goverment on the island depsite its hostile attitude towards the Turkish Cypriots - such a recognition of the Greek Administration as the government of the whole island would amount to a complete capitulation of Turkey in Cyprus. Turkey and the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus will never accept that and the EU should have known better before accepting only a part of a divided island essentially at war with the othe part as a member state.

Besides Turkey is facing much more stringent requirements than other countries such as Greece and Spain when they were entering the union ... both had just emerged from millitary dictatorship but the EU was quick to admit them.

Admission to the EU has nothing to do with "fulfilling requirements" or accepting "European values of democracy"  ... its all about politics ... and the simple truth is that Turkey is enormous and would be too influential within the EU if accepted thus challenging the franco-german dominance within the Union. Turkey will be the most populous member - bigger than either France or Germany seperately.



Edited by bg_turk - 09-Jun-2006 at 09:11
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mico5bei View Drop Down
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Posts: 131 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 09:30
Well Turkey will never know what it really boils down to untill they have completed the requirements. When the most basic and most important criteria have been furfilled, such as Human rights, it will be hard for the EU to ignore Turkeys entry.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 09:38
Originally posted by Komnenos

There are, of course, dozens of threads on the very same topic in AE.
But with a fluctuating membership on AE, there might be some new insights.
As many of the threads have turned sour in the past, let's try and keep this one civil.
 
My opinion, if Turkey wants to join the EU and fulfills all the usual entry conditions, they're more than welcome.
The EU is a economic and political union, not a religious or cultural one, but a Muslim country in the EU would further enrich the cultural diversity and might bridge a gap that needs desperately to be brigded.
 
logical and succint....concur....it's overdue for the very reasons stated above...


Edited by Wulfher ap Clun - 09-Jun-2006 at 09:39
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mico5bei View Drop Down
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Whats overdue?
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 09:54
here is one big thread (one of my earlier forays).

Bg, its not the greeks that stops turkey, get over it. If turkey doesnt get it in, they are to blame, read the list before you cry victim or make assumptions and then tell me if its not unreasonable. Human rights, democracy, good neghbourly behavoiur, peace..

PDF


"− the Copenhagen criteria, which set down the following requirements for membership:
*the stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities;
* the existence of a functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competitive pressure and market forces within the Union;
* the ability to take on the obligations of membership, including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union and the administrative capacity to effectively apply and implement the acquis;
− Turkey's unequivocal commitment to good neighbourly relations and its undertaking to resolve any outstanding border disputes in conformity with the principle of peaceful settlement of disputes in accordance with the United Nations Charter, including if necessary jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice;
− Turkey's continued support for efforts to achieve a comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus problem within the UN framework and in line with the principles on which the Union is founded, including steps to contribute to a favourable climate for a comprehensive settlement, and progress in the normalisation of bilateral relations between Turkey and all EU Member States, including the Republic of Cyprus.
− the fulfilment of Turkey's obligations under the Association Agreement and its Additional Protocol extending the Association Agreement to all new EU Member States, in particular those pertaining to the EU-Turkey customs union, as well as the implementation of the Accession Partnership, as regularly revised." pg 3.
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Posts: 1919 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 09:55
the time of the EU is over why do you think they're allowing east-eurpean countries. Cheap labor and such. I prefer that turkey joins something else something new. Eu has no workers what so ever mostly foreign (east europe and other) No resouces exept for gas. You can be so technologicly advanced but If you have no resources and no workers to process it. What to do?
 
Did you know that in the Netherlands they're closing universities and making it expesiver and harder to studie because they have a lack of worker.
 
The time of the west is probably over It's in the east now. Not now but in max 20 years it will be.
 
btw could someone give me examples of the natural resources the countries in the EU have tnxBig smile
 
oh yeah turkey joining the Eu will never happen they have to officially recognise Cyprus as a country and not just the North. Facts are Facts
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 131 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 09:58
WOW! Proves my point, they are still along long long way off...
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Posts: 27 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 09:59

Well E.U. forgot to ask bg_turk before accepting Cyprus as member state.Well My opinion Europeans want   Turkey more as market to sell their products and make with low prices holidays .If Turkey become a full member needs enormous budgets to converge the economy of Turkey of the European economies .Who is gonna contribute the budget E.U. with these money.

thats the big question ?
There is already a problem with the distribution of the sources (specially
with Poland).
My feeling is that is more economic problem than political or human rights.
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Posts: 131 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 10:03
to xi tujue
Natural resources are dwindling, no one has ample supplies of them anymore, the east is no exception. Europe may not have much natural resources, but it has infastructure, technology, the resources of the future which will make all the difference. The east may be the future power, but they have a long way to catch up yet...and if by east you mean China, that is still not a certain thing
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Posts: 4613 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 10:11
True economics is more important than what they may say, but emotions and perceptions are very powerful in this case to.

Cheap labour can be sourced from anywhere BTW and the demographic arguent while valid can be solved through internal family based policies or even easier general immigration intakes.

Edited by Leonidas - 09-Jun-2006 at 10:12
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Posts: 1869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 10:16
No, over my dead body.

Actually Turkey should be allowed, but we should refuse to join.

I think that's better.

Edited by barish - 09-Jun-2006 at 10:18
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Posts: 1919 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 10:25
Originally posted by barish

No, over my dead body.

Actually Turkey should be allowed, but we should refuse to join.

I think that's better.
yep you're right
 
btw japan has more advanced technology than the europeans
and what influence just because it's big importer well that going to change


Edited by xi_tujue - 09-Jun-2006 at 10:27
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Posts: 131 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 10:53
To Xi tujue,
Why dont you start your own thread about whatever you want to talk about, this is about Turkey and the EU
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Posts: 2347 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 10:59
Originally posted by Leonidas



"− the Copenhagen criteria, which set down the following requirements for membership:
*the stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities;
* the existence of a functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competitive pressure and market forces within the Union;
* the ability to take on the obligations of membership, including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union and the administrative capacity to effectively apply and implement the acquis;


The Copenhagen criteria are the prerequisite to being declared a candidate country, and since Turkey has been declared a candidate country she has already met those.



− Turkey's unequivocal commitment to good neighbourly relations and its undertaking to resolve any outstanding border disputes in conformity with the principle of peaceful settlement of disputes in accordance with the United Nations Charter, including if necessary jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice;


good neighbourly relations? Shouldn't the EU have appled those same requirement to the Greek Cypriot administration before it joined. How is it possible for a country effectively at war with the other half of itself to be admitted to the EU?


− Turkey's continued support for efforts to achieve a comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus problem within the UN framework and in line with the principles on which the Union is founded, including steps to contribute to a favourable climate for a comprehensive settlement, and progress in the normalisation of bilateral relations between Turkey and all EU Member States, including the Republic of Cyprus.


The entity which you refer to by the name of "Republic of Cyprus" is unrecognized by Turkey and Turkish Cypriots and does not in any way shape or form represent the Turkish Cypriot community which is completely absent from its governing structures.

Improvement in the bilateral relations are only possible if the Republic of Cyprus shows the same goodwill towards the Turkish Cypruit community.

The Turkish Cypriots have done everything possible for the achievement of peace on the island, inlcuding the toppling of hardliner President Denktash, the readiness to dissolve their state in their YES vote towards the Annan plan, but none of these have so far been recpiprocated. The uncompromising stance of the Greeks in Cyprus boldened by their EU membership has lead EU's Gunter Verheugen to exclaim that he felt cheated by Greek Cypriots:

The EU's Gunter Verheugen said the Greek Cypriot government had cheated the EU by pretending to support the unification plan while in reality campaigning against it.

Mr Verheugen said the government "had taken him for a ride", and he directly criticised the Greek Cypriot leader, Tassos Papadopoulos.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3649437.stm



"We're all profoundly disappointed that this historic opportunity has been lost," EU External Relations Commissioner Chris Patten said.

"I don't think the leadership of the Greek Cypriot community have behaved well, to put it mildly - gagging (European) commissioners' attempts to speak in the community and so on."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3660171.stm

Despite its promises to lift the isolation and to provide economic aid to the north in the wake of the Greek rejection of the unification proposal, the EU has so far failed to take any concrete step.

In spite of reassurances, Turkish Northern Cyprus is as isolated as ever. Jonny Dymond reports from Northern Cyprus:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news_web/video/9012da68000d7b0/bb/09012da68000d861_bb_16x9.asx


− the fulfilment of Turkey's obligations under the Association Agreement and its Additional Protocol extending the Association Agreement to all new EU Member States, in particular those pertaining to the EU-Turkey customs union, as well as the implementation of the Accession Partnership, as regularly revised." pg 3.


Turkey might consider lifting its isolation against Southern Cyprus, when the embargoes against Northern Cyprus are lifted.

http://www.embargoed.org/
There is no chance for Turkish parliament to accept a lifting of the isolation against Southern Cyprus, when the North is still under embargoes.
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mico5bei View Drop Down
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Posts: 131 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 11:14
Originally posted by bg_turk

[QUOTE=Leonidas]

"− the Copenhagen criteria, which set down the following requirements for membership:
*the stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities;
* the existence of a functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competitive pressure and market forces within the Union;
* the ability to take on the obligations of membership, including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union and the administrative capacity to effectively apply and implement the acquis;


The Copenhagen criteria are the prerequisite to being declared a candidate country, and since Turkey has been declared a candidate country she has already met those.


[quote]

How has turkey met those requirements, they are prerequisites for membership,not candicacy. Human rights? Respect for minorities?
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Posts: 80 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2006 at 13:15
No. Turkey lost enough time with EU, should go her own way there are always alternatives.

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