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Zagros
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Topic: Tajikestan reverting to Persian script Posted: 07-May-2008 at 01:18 |
I hope they get rid of those awful "ov" and "ev" suffixes on their surnames too.
'Tajikistan to use Persian alphabet' Fri, 02 May 2008 10:01:21
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A sample of Persian calligraphy |
Tajikistan will switch its alphabet from Cyrillic to Persian, once the condition for the change is being met, a Tajik official says.
Tajikistan's deputy culture minister, Farhad Rahimov, said his government will primarily give a go-ahead to the project through introducing books in Persian language to primary school students as a test.
“When we feel that the Tajik people became familiar with the Persian alphabet, we will study the issue,” Rahimov told the Islamic Republic News Agency (IRNA).
Iran has previously distributed works of its eminent poets, such as Sa'adi, Mowlavi and Roudaki, which are much favored in Tajikistan to the ex-Soviet satellite state.
Iran and Tajikistan also plan to implement a cultural and educational accord clinched between the two Muslim states, which include the construction of Iran International School in Dushanbe, the capital of Tajikistan.
Most of Tajikistan's population belongs to the Tajik ethnic group and speak in Tajik language, which is a variant of Persian language spoken in Iran.
In Persian, Tajikistan means the "Land of the Tajiks".
MRD/DT
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=53991§ionid=351020406
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Edited by Zagros - 07-May-2008 at 01:19
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Sarmat
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 01:34 |
I don't think it will ever happen. They most likely will switch to Latin alphabet instead.
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Zagros
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 03:02 |
I take it that is why Rahimov (soon to be Rahimson) said they will primarily give the project go ahead by introducing elementary books using the Latin alphabet then. Why switch to Latin when their entire history and identity, out-with Tsarist and Soviet assimilation and revisionism, is scripted in Persian? This will move will further restore their historic connections with Afghanistan and Iran of which they were robbed.
Edited by Zagros - 07-May-2008 at 03:05
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Sarmat
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 06:03 |
Because the whole thing is a political question. And it's not of a top importance there. Nobody, is really looking in the direction of Iran right now, at the same time Latin alphabet is associated with "progress" and "Westernization." Everything would depend on preferences of Tajik elite. Rahmonov won't switch to Arabic alphabet. However, if a pro-Western leader will follow, Latin alphabet is a possibility. If for some reasons islamists come to power, then Arabic script will become a real possibility. Also, just from the practical point of view, Cyrrilic alphabet is firstly, much more convenient secondly, everybody got used to it in Tajikistan.
BTW, Tajiks were not robbed of their great heritage. I remember reading Shah-nameh published by the Soviet publishing house, with numerous references that this epic is a treasure of Tajik people. There were also beautiful Soviet movies made by Tajikfilm, movie company of Tajikistan based on Shah-nameh. I still remember them. Also, 80% of Tajiks were illiterate before 1917 revolution. They were educated in their own language written in Cyrrilic script.
This is not to say, that USSR was a paradise, of course it was not. But it was not that terrible either.
Edited by Sarmat12 - 07-May-2008 at 06:45
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 06:36 |
It might be better for them to stick with it. Persian script is very difficult to learn if you are not familiar with it from childhood.
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Suren
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 08:10 |
It is better for both Persians and Tajiks to switch from Cyrillic and Arabic script to Latin script, so they may read and write in the same way.
1. Cyrillic is not a good choice since majority of Persians are not familiar with it, beside it is an imposed script. 2. Arabic script is hard for Tajiks to learn. 3. Latin script: Many people in Iran and Tajikistan are familiar with this script beside it is an universal script.
I will support changing our script from Arabic to Original Persian script (Pahlavi), but it is not easy for many people. Since changing back to Pahlavi script is unlikely, I think changing to Latin script has more chance and benefit for Tajiks and Persians.
Edited by Suren - 07-May-2008 at 08:11
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Spartakus
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 08:42 |
Come one people!!!! There is also the Greek alphabet!!!!
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 13:55 |
Why not Avestan script? This is the most suitable script for writing in Persian langauge, as I said in another thread the Avestan alphabet with 14 vowels and 33 consonants is also one of the most complete alphabets in the world.
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Zagros
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 17:00 |
That is why it is being introduced at elementary level, Sparten, and it would be a phased process. When Cyrillic was forced on Tajiks, many except intellectuals and aristocrats would have been illiterate, so there would not have been much resistance from the masses, if any. Given that Tajiks have a strong Persian identity I don't think there will be much resistance to the reinstatement of their proper script because it means that the works of Rudaki, Ferdosi, Molavi etc can be read in their original forms.
The idea of a Latin script for the Iranic world is a joke, it would mean the loss of a millennium's worth of culture.
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Zagros
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 17:19 |
Originally posted by Sarmat12
Because the whole thing is a political question. And it's not of a top importance there. Nobody, is really looking in the direction of Iran right now, at the same time Latin alphabet is associated with "progress" and "Westernization." Everything would depend on preferences of Tajik elite. Rahmonov won't switch to Arabic alphabet. However, if a pro-Western leader will follow, Latin alphabet is a possibility. If for some reasons islamists come to power, then Arabic script will become a real possibility. Also, just from the practical point of view, Cyrrilic alphabet is firstly, much more convenient secondly, everybody got used to it in Tajikistan.
BTW, Tajiks were not robbed of their great heritage. I remember reading Shah-nameh published by the Soviet publishing house, with numerous references that this epic is a treasure of Tajik people. There were also beautiful Soviet movies made by Tajikfilm, movie company of Tajikistan based on Shah-nameh. I still remember them. Also, 80% of Tajiks were illiterate before 1917 revolution. They were educated in their own language written in Cyrrilic script.
This is not to say, that USSR was a paradise, of course it was not. But it was not that terrible either. |
Nobody there is looking in the direction of Iran? What's your source for that? Iran is one of the biggest investors int hat country and the foreign minister of Tajikistan has publicly stated that relations with Iran are a keystone of its foreign strategy. And that does not entail reunification or any such thing. And besides that on the grass roots level, in my experience, Tajiks are very warm to Iranians. People are used to Cyrillic? Yes they are, again that is why Persian is being introduced at primary level. The script won't be forced on Tajiks to whom it's unintelligible.
Tajiks were not robbed of their great heritage. I remember reading
Shah-nameh published by the Soviet publishing house, with numerous
references that this epic is a treasure of Tajik people |
That's the whole thing right there: epic treasure of Tajik people? It's an epic treasure of all Iranic people, from Kurdistan to Tajiks China, even many Turkic people. The Soviet and Tsarists made sure to disconnect all references to Tajikistan's Iranic history (same thing happened when the northern part of Azarbaijan was annexed). It's just too bad that the number of times Iran is mentioned in the Shahnameh is too numerous to count. BBC also called Rudaki a "Tajik" poet recently and completely neglected to state which language he spoke. It seems all has-been colonial powers of the Great Game find swallowing this pill very hard.
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Al Jassas
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 17:52 |
Hello to you all
I can easily read and to some extent understand Persian however, when trying to read Urdu or Punjabi I really suck. Plus, Tajik not that different from Persian and literary Tajik is Persian, no matter how the Russian tried to make Tajik an independent language. The entire persian heritage, roughly millions of books not just the shahnama but the entire modern persian literature is written in Arabic script. Changing to latin is not just worth it, it is just like making Turkish revert to the Arabic script which is also not worth it.
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 17:55 |
Originally posted by Spartakus
Come one people!!!! There is also the Greek alphabet!!!!
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Unfortunately (or fortunately) there is no Macedonian like Alexander to force Greek alphabet upon us!
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Zagros
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 18:12 |
It's not the same as the Arabic alphabet because it has additional letters.
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Al Jassas
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 18:24 |
So the Turks use a "Turkish" script because they have 4 more characters (I think). If you read carefully, you will find that the origin of these excess letters is Arabic, to write sounds that don't exist in the language like g in good. In some Quranic reading styles there are archaic arabic sounds that are represented by letters not used in the mainstream, because nobody uses them any more and from these modefications the Arabic script was modefied to accomidate persian name and then persians added characters of their own on the Arabic model. The goal for transferring to Arabic, since Pahlavi was used till the 10th century, was because by that time most Iranians were muslims and Ferdowsi's great epic was probably the first major work written by the new script.
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 18:27 |
Originally posted by Zagros
That's the whole thing right there: epic treasure of Tajik people? It's an epic treasure of all Iranic people, from Kurdistan to Tajiks China, even many Turkic people. The Soviet and Tsarists made sure to disconnect all references to Tajikistan's Iranic history (same thing happened when the northern part of Azarbaijan was annexed). It's just too bad that the number of times Iran is mentioned in the Shahnameh is too numerous to count.
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No. Of course all the books and sources were mentioning that Shah-nameh is the treasure of all Iranian people from Iran and Afghanistan as well, but Tajiks were emphasized because they were Iranian people of the USSR. The connection of Tajiks to Iranian world was always emphasized as well in the Soviet History books.
Naturally, the Soviet Shah-nameh movie was only using and repeating the name Iran, as it's in the original.
You have a bit biased impression of the Soviet history science. It was rather concerned with the criticizm of the "backward feudal social system" and "religious fanatism," rather than the denial of the obvous common roots of Tajiks and other Iranian people.
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Sarmat
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 18:31 |
Regarding the alphabet. I think we can use both Persian and Arabic. But Arabic IMHO is more correct. Since obviously the ovewhelming majority of the letters are Arabic. Likewise we can say that English, Spanish, German alphabets exist. But there is no mistakes if we just refer to all these alphabets with the general term "Latin."
Edited by Sarmat12 - 07-May-2008 at 18:31
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 18:31 |
If it is the arabic script then kindly tell Al-Jassas why you call Pakistan "Bakistan"?
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 18:33 |
lol.
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 18:35 |
Originally posted by Zagros
It's not the same as the Arabic alphabet because it has additional letters.
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Come on Zagros, it's like calling Turkish script a different script from Latin script because they have 3 or 4 extra alphabet . We just have P, Ch, G and Zh sounds which Arabic alphabet doesn't have. Beside if you really know how to write Persian alphabet you may know we have different type of letters for the same sound like S which we have Sin, Sad and Se. For Z sound: zal, ze, zad and za. For T sound: te, ta For H sound: He (hole), H (do cheshm) For Gh sound: Ghein and Ghaf. This letters are unnecessary because most of Persian don't pronounce all of them. Only religious people pronounce these letters when they want to read Quran. Many letters in our alphabet are just useless.
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Posted: 07-May-2008 at 18:41 |
Originally posted by Sarmat12
Regarding the alphabet. I think we can use both Persian and Arabic. But Arabic IMHO is more correct. Since obviously the ovewhelming majority of the letters are Arabic. Likewise we can say that English, Spanish, German alphabets exist. But there is no mistakes if we just refer to all these alphabets with the general term "Latin." |
You can call the Persian script Perso-Arabic but the alphabet is Persian. Al Jassas, I have question for you and I think you will probably know the answer (I don't): Are there any examples of pre-Islamic Arabic language literature? And what script does it use? I have always noted the striking similarity of Sassanid Avestani and the modern Arabic and Persian scripts. I know all of them have their roots in Phoenecian, but I have never seen two so strikingly similar.
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