Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedWhen did blonde haired, blue eyed peoples...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Styrbiorn View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2810
Direct Link To This Post Topic: When did blonde haired, blue eyed peoples...
    Posted: 28-Feb-2008 at 09:10
Originally posted by Serge L



It's usually explained with the fact hair becomes thicker when growing, so while the melanin keeps the same tone, since  every single hair is semi-transparent, the bulk of them seems darker when they are thicker.


Which is not true, at least not in general. I know several people who had blond here when young, but black now. And every single strand is black if you look at it individually.

I personally had blond hair as a kid, but no longer. Now it's brownish (though whenever I leave Scandinavia people call it "blonde" anyway, so maybe my reply to the above is a bit due to translation errors).
Back to Top
kafkas View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 27-Feb-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 117
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2008 at 05:33
Originally posted by Reginmund

Originally posted by omshanti

This is why you can find variety of hair and eye colours even in the darkest of caucasoid pepulations such as Indians or middle easteners, while mongoloid peoples only have black hair and dark brown eyes regardless of the climate/latitude/geographic location.


That's generally true, but not entirely. Especially in northeast Asia you find Mongoloids with hair that tend towards brown rather than black, so there is variation, if slighter.


It's interesting you mentioned this, some Chinese sources specifically described the Xiongnu nomads as having reddish hair and green eyes. Ancient mummies found in certain regions of China also indicate these features.
Back to Top
HEROI View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 06-Jul-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 468
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 22:57
Serge L.THANKS
I have been wondering why it hapens.But surely Mixed ancestry has something there as well?
For example in my family most kids are blond when they young ,most of them brown eys,but not all of them grow their hair ( castagnie*) when they grown ups,my uncle is over 40 and does not have a very big change.Does not it has to do anything with the fact that he is light eys,and not brown eys?Surely ancestry must play a role there?
Me pune,me perpjekje.
Back to Top
Serge L View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 485
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 22:31
Originally posted by HEROI

The thing about blondes not nesesarily having blue eys is true,so lets not consider all blondes blue eyed.

Strange also is the fact that most kids who are blondes when they young,but with brown or green eys (not blue) tend to get their hair browner and browner as they grow older, i am an example of this.


 I am another.

It's usually explained with the fact hair becomes thicker when growing, so while the melanin keeps the same tone, since  every single hair is semi-transparent, the bulk of them seems darker when they are thicker.
Back to Top
Richard XIII View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 06-Jun-2005
Location: Romania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 651
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 13:12
"two brown eyed parents can produce a blue eyed child." with a little help of the milkman
"I want to know God's thoughts...
...the rest are details."

Albert Einstein
Back to Top
HEROI View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 06-Jul-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 468
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2008 at 02:06
I think that there were dinstinct races from the begings of human history.I dont think that humans were once all brown and then all this staff about blondes happened.
 
To me the division of humans into different races seams deliberate,its ither been done by humans themself,or........................ well i dont know.
Me pune,me perpjekje.
Back to Top
HEROI View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 06-Jul-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 468
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2008 at 02:02

The thing about blondes not nesesarily having blue eys is true,so lets not consider all blondes blue eyed.

Strange also is the fact that most kids who are blondes when they young,but with brown or green eys (not blue) tend to get their hair browner and browner as they grow older, i am an example of this.

Edited by HEROI - 21-Feb-2008 at 02:03
Me pune,me perpjekje.
Back to Top
Cryptic View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 05-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1962
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2008 at 18:26
My personal theoruy is that blonde hair / blue eyed mutations originated in Northeren Pakistan / Iran / India about 15,000 years ago.  The Aryan migration then carries this trait and Indo European languages to Europe.  
 
At the time, Europe, especially Ireland, Scandanavia, Germany and the Baltics were very isolated physically and genetically fromt the rest of the world.  Once placed int he population, the mutation slowly becomes the dominate expression in these regions.      Meanwhile, the trait is greatly reduced in the "Aryan Homeland" of Pakistan / India / Iran due to migrations and intermarriage with other people who do not have the trait. 
 
Had the Aryans went East, then there would be blonde haired, blue eyed Asians in areas such as Tibet and Korea (geographic isolation, little intermarriage or migration).  
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2008 at 13:04
 
Originally posted by Tyranos

According to the latest information, blue eyes came from one common ancestor form out've the near East during the Neolithic.
That's not the latest information, that's the latest speculation (well, I take your word for it it's the latest).
 
It's very, very doubtful that blue eyes, etc only originated once. Much more likely that the various mutations occurred several times at several different places.


The theory that blue eyes was miraculously created because to attract more mates is nonsense really. Not all brunette's are brown eyed and not all blonds are blue eyed besides, moreover two brown eyed parents can produce a blue eyed child.
The last is the classic Mendelian result resulting from brown-eye dominance. The point is that two blue-eyed parents cannot produce a brown-eyed one.
 
The same is true of any dominant-recessive pair. For instance phenylketonuria (PKU) is inherited that way:
PKU is an autosomal recessive genetic disorder, meaning that each parent must have at least one defective allele of the gene for PAH, and the child must inherit two defective alleles, one from each parent. As a result, it is possible for a parent with PKU phenotype to have a child without PKU if the other parent possesses at least one functional allele of the PAH gene; but a child of two parents with PKU will always inherit two defective alleles, and therefore the disease.
(PKU comes to mind because I have friends who are both carriers, and had two children, both with the defect.)


 
Back to Top
Ponce de Leon View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Lonce De Peon

Joined: 11-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2967
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2008 at 02:02
Originally posted by Tyranos



two brown eyed parents can produce a blue eyed child.

Thats basically me in a nutshell
Back to Top
Tyranos View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 246
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 17:44
According to the latest information, blue eyes came from one common ancestor form out've the near East during the Neolithic.

The theory that blue eyes was miraculously created because to attract more mates is nonsense really. Not all brunette's are brown eyed and not all blonds are blue eyed besides, moreover two brown eyed parents can produce a blue eyed child.

Also the idea that Red hair came from Neanderthals is moronic. Just because they had it too, doest mean that somehow Scottish or Irish people are Neanderthal. Red hair is a mutation its a very small minority percentage  found in populations and always has been. Its really beyond stupidity but its rather typical of science news, lots of ridiculous claims and silliness its often hard to separate fact from fiction with alotve these articles. Too many in science prefer the mixed race extinction of Neanderthals, despite the fact that no current genetic nor anthropological evidence shows such, yet its still pushed forward.

Just looking at some Neanderthal reconstruction's too,  some like  portraying  them looking way too modern human..namely like Rupert Grint from  Harry Potter fame:



The reality is that they wouldve looked more like this:




The Germanic's themeselves vary, they arent a race of clones:

Ancient Germans weren't so fair


http://dienekes.50webs.com/blog/archives/000634.html

________________

*Blond hair can be found in non-Caucasoid populations:




Edited by Tyranos - 17-Feb-2008 at 17:49
Back to Top
Serge L View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 485
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 14:56
That was the original theory, then somebody noticed that two green eyed parents can have a hazel eyed on (my parents nd me are an example of that), which should have been impossible.
Therefore they are restudying the theory including 3 or more gene pairs to explain eye colour transmission.
Back to Top
Onogur View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 18-Feb-2007
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 13:50

Indeed very interesting article, Serge L! I was always thinking that the dark eye color is dominant, when someone has both dark-eyed and light-eyed predecessors.

Back to Top
Serge L View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 485
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 12:31
this web page:
http://pages.globetrotter.net/peter_frost61z/European-hair-and-eye-color.htm
contains interesting ideas.
Back to Top
Tore The Dog View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 08-Feb-2008
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 12:30
Sence they where up far north ? some Endogami perhaps , and sexual atracktion.
 
Looking for source again , its some years now i read about it.
 
 
 
On English and about ancient civilzations in Europe , but blonde is not there any more.


Edited by Tore The Dog - 17-Feb-2008 at 13:03
Back to Top
Styrbiorn View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2810
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 12:22
Originally posted by Tore The Dog

See if i can put in 2 maps over blondes and eye color here , and i think it is also milk tolerance in this game of quizz to , then we are landing in  "Fal Byggden" an ancient place whit stone megalits from 6000 years ago.
 
No go , an narrow belt over Scandinava have 80% blondes and total is 50 % below its 19%
and from Saharan dessert to Quweit , stands Zero %
 
I will check where the source is.
Hmm, where did you read that Falbygden has such a high percentage of blonde people?  Even if it would be so, which I doubt (who would conduct such a study in the first place?), it doesn't mean anything. The blue eyes surely came to Scandinavia, not from it. Blue eyes exist in many places, and while where has been pre-historical immigration waves to Scandinavia, not so many has gone the other direction. Germanic peoples emigrated long after blue eyes started existing. Of course, nothing says the mutation giving blue eyes started in several places - there is quite a big difference in the blue colours in different areas.
Back to Top
Tore The Dog View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 08-Feb-2008
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 12:08
See if i can put in 2 maps over blondes and eye color here , and i think it is also milk tolerance in this game of quizz to , then we are landing in  "Fal Byggden" an ancient place whit stone megalits from 6000 years ago.
 
No go , an narrow belt over Scandinava have 80% blondes and total is 50 % below its 19%
and from Saharan dessert to Quweit , stands Zero %
 
I will check where the source is.
 


Edited by Tore The Dog - 17-Feb-2008 at 12:25
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 06:29

If that what you say was true, Menmorut, then Eskimos would be the blondest, bluest eyed palest people on the planet.

 

Arabs live in the desert yet they tend to be lighter than Eskimos or jungle dweller. So this sunshine=darker hypothsis needs a rework.

Back to Top
Menumorut View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 02-Jun-2006
Location: Romania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1423
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 00:36
I don't know in Bulgaria, but in Romania there are some areas with characteristic typologies. Most distinct is Maramures (extreme North), which are mostly blonde. Also, in North and East Moldavia the people are blond and have a "Russian" look. In Transylvania there are areas were most people are blonde: Bistrita-Nasaud, Hunedoara, Alba. But the types of faces at these groups are different. I can recognize someone from Hunedoara, is a type seeming with the faces of Dacians on the Trajan's Column, a type of blonde dinaric (atheltic profile at males, faces with well profiled traits).

At the darker haired groups too can be made distinctions. The people from Romanian Plain (Southern Romania) are different, say, for the ones from Central Modavia. In the mountainous part of Wallachia there are several types and some too are identifiable in a measure.


All these are the result of centuries and millenia of population movement and mixages.

It is almost not any resemblance between a Romanian from North of country and one from South, or one from West and one from East etc. What is common is the language (an impressive unity, due perhaps to the low level of population in the migration period) and the feelings.

Back to Top
Onogur View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 18-Feb-2007
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2008 at 23:55

Menumorut,

In Romania, as in Bulgaria and most neighbouring countries, the people are very mixed. This is because of our geographical position and historical background as a "crossroad". So, that is the main reason for having the whole "palette" of Euroasian features (except for the far-eastern ones). So, I don't think that any research about the origin and spread of a certain characteristic in this area will be of a huge value.
 
For example, can you say, just by looking at someone, what part of Romania\Bulgaria\etc. he\she comes from? Or even say for certain that he/she is Romanian\Bulgarian\etc?! I personaly will never put money on that.Smile
 
 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.