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jankhan View Drop Down
Janissary
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Posts: 16 		  Quote jankhan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: hazara people
    Posted: 08-Feb-2009 at 12:19
Sallam and hello to every body. This is Ahmed Ali Shad and I am a Hazara born in quetta on July 13 1986. My english not so well so I could express my thought to you guys about this forum nor I think so deep like you people. I am happy that most of other people are intrested to know about the hazara history in afghanistan and every body is giving explaination and also critical comments. which is good. Like I said that I don't have much knowledge about the afghanistan's history and i don't believe any body here know every thing the way it used to be in afghanistan's history. I only know as I have heard from grand parents that they were residents of Gazak Thanacho/ Jaghouri, Ghazni and they lost there land in war and oppression with abdur rahman when british were supporting them to destroy Hazarajat and kill as many as they can to destabalise afghanistan. Gazak thanacho was beautifull place with all kinds of farming, livestokes and water channals. 
  
  Wars have lost and wons and hazara people have a great and unbreakable relationship with wars and adventures from past to future in wich they express thier survival guds. No one could or can beat the hazara in the field of war. All those sad times wich past on hazara and those elements who oppossed this on us were not thier bravery but the result of a great conspiracy with help of great illuminaties. I give the example of a great martyred Abdul Ali Mazari who were captured after a peace agreemant on the oath of Holy Quran by the decievers of Quran Wich is been happening from the past.
 
Finally once again i want to thank every non hazara who post thier comments in this forum.
for any question on my posted comment please ask as reply i will be glad to answer. 
 
 
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 19:14
The Giant Buddha statues built in Bamian during the 6th century resembled those that were built in regions adjacent to it in Jalalabad and Swat:
 
 
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 19:02
Going by just a face of a Buddha is very misleading.  There were busts of Apollo and Hercules  found in Afghanistan, but that doesn't mean that all Afghans looked like Apollo!  The statues were built with Hellenestic qualities, and Buddhas relative of their time, which was during the Ephtalite period, and not the Kushan period, which resembled these:
 
 
"The human head usually has appears with a perfect oval face, regular features, with almond-shaped and slightly protruding eyes, with gentle arching eyebrows, a straight nose, and beautifully cut lips with a subtle smile. The Buddha's influence is evident in the half-closed eyes suggesting meditation. The face if often unbearded, but sometimes a mustache strikes a foreign note, most likely Kushan. The "usnisa" or cranial bump, a predestination the Buddha was born with, is usually seen in the form of the "chignon" a knot or a roll of hear wrapped in silk on the dome of Buddha's head. The elongated ears indicate the heavy, rich jewelry the Buddha wore. " 
 
 


Edited by Afghanan - 06-Jun-2008 at 19:09
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 13:16
I am your native Pakistani mod here. So post it. I can translate and make sure its accurate.
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Posts: 429 		  Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 12:10
If their faces were destroyed, how do you prove it?
I can't read Urdu, but try me. If I have difficulty, I will ask other members for help.

By the way, are you the same person who started the ''Hazara and pan-Turk'' thread one and half years ago? or are there many Hazara people in Australia?






Edited by omshanti - 06-Jun-2008 at 17:38
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Posts: 36 		  Quote Naimani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 10:50
Originally posted by omshanti

Originally posted by Naimani

The Gaint Buddha's had Mongoloid faces...
Interesting. Can you prove this?
Yes I can. Unfortunately their faces were destroyed by a King. Can you read Urdu?
Rogho da taye aash khaw namumana!
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Posts: 36 		  Quote Naimani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 10:47
Originally posted by Sparten

Then please provide name of periodical, name of article and author and date of publication.
 
Front Cover:
Name: Payghami Tanzim Quetta
Date of publication: May 2006
Rogho da taye aash khaw namumana!
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Posts: 429 		  Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 09:40
Originally posted by Naimani

The Gaint Buddha's had Mongoloid faces...
Interesting. Can you prove this?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 09:29
Then please provide name of periodical, name of article and author and date of publication.
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Posts: 36 		  Quote Naimani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 09:17
Originally posted by Sparten

1) Since Naimani did not provide the link from where he got the picture it has been deleted. I am sorry Afghanan, the post in which you quoted Naimani, where the offending picture was visible, has also been deleted.

 

2) I would urge all parties to continue the debate. Please refrain from accusations, argue against the message not the messanger.

 

Sorry bro I forgot to mention, I scanned that pic from the magazine which is being published monthly in Quetta, Pakistan. Cheers
Rogho da taye aash khaw namumana!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 06:12

1) Since Naimani did not provide the link from where he got the picture it has been deleted. I am sorry Afghanan, the post in which you quoted Naimani, where the offending picture was visible, has also been deleted.

 

2) I would urge all parties to continue the debate. Please refrain from accusations, argue against the message not the messanger.

 
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Posts: 36 		  Quote Naimani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 01:56
Originally posted by Afghanan

[QUOTE=Naimani] [QUOTE=Cryptic]  
This is completely false.  The Bamian Buddhas were built during the Ephtalite period.  Again where are you getting your sources from?
 
I read relaible sources, not theories based on some made up assumptions mate. I get my info from different sources, but definitly not wikipedia! I talk to the great people of Bamiyan. Besides you seem to be very unreasonable when it comes to the history behind the Gaint Buddhas. I'm not saying that Ephtalites were NOT involved. They did play their part in it! But Bamiyan Buddha's were mainly built by the Bamiyanian people. People are important mate, don't just say whoever ruled were the ONLY ones who created the Buddhas. Ephtalite people are originally known as Ak Huns. They were a mixture of many people, but mainly Central Asians. Jaghury Hazaras are Ak Hun and some believe even Uyghurs were part of it. That's why Jaghuries and Uyghur people have a lot in common. The Gaint Buddha's had Mongoloid faces...and some were built Indian style. These are facts, that you cannot cross out, or keep a blind eye. If you really have a passion and care about the history of this great civilisation of mankind, I suggest you stop spending time reading sites created by careless writers who just wanna fill in the page with whatever.
Rogho da taye aash khaw namumana!
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 00:57
Originally posted by Naimani

Originally posted by Afghanan

There is no doubt some remnants of the original people remain in the blood of Hazaras, but that would also be the case for Tajiks, and even Pashtuns. 


Chingis Khan was a Borjigin. And there are thousands and thousands of them in Besud, Hazarajat.

In Asia 1/10 person is genetically linked to Mongols lol very naughty empire.
 
We are talking about the remnants of the Kushan and Ephtalites, not the Mongolion Chengiz Khan. 
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 00:42
This is what Kushan royalty looked like:
 

This is a coin created under the Kushan ruler Kujula Kadphises
 
Here is another coin by Vima Kadphises, another Kushan Ruler:
 
 
Here is a bust of a Kushan Man:
 
 
Heres another picture of a Kushan noble:
 
 
Picture of a Kushan Prince:
 
 
 


Edited by Afghanan - 06-Jun-2008 at 00:43
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 00:26
Originally posted by Naimani

Originally posted by Cryptic

Is there any relation between the presently destroyed and hopefully to be restored Buddhas (located on Hazara territory) and the origin of the Hazaras? 

But then, the Hazaras are Shia Muslims, is there any relation between their sect and their origins?

Yeah there is a relation! Hazaras are not pure Mongols or pure Turks. No Turk or Mongol tribe is pure nowadays, they are all a mixture of both with European mixes.  Hazara origin and background has been made confusing by some writers, but its pretty straight forward. Buddha's of Bamiyan were obviously built by ancient Bamiyanian people. Bamiyan was a major city located on the famous Silk Road so the city was full of different people and cultures. Their empires were made of many different tribes. Such as the Great Kushans. In fact Bamiyanian people built the Buddha's during Kushanian empire. Bamiyan was a center of Buddhism and a place where many cultures and people met.

Hazara isn't one single tribe. Its a confederation of many tribes. Altaic tribes such as Baghcheri, Yeuzderi, Uqi, Geri, Quli, Khosha and etc are very ancient and they are all part of Hazara unity. So all tribes are one people now, even the new ones, such as the Tatars of Northern Afghanistan, Naimans(who are also known as Shekh-Ali, Abaka, Orta Balaaq and etc), Tulai Khaani, Qul Bars, Nekudaries and etc. I wish I had time to discuss this in detail with you guys, but I got mid-semester exams comin up so ye! Hope I was clear in my explanation Cryptic.
 
This is completely false.  The Bamian Buddhas were built during the Ephtalite period.  Again where are you getting your sources from?


Edited by Afghanan - 06-Jun-2008 at 00:28
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 20:10

Naimani,

Thanks for the information regarding the Hazara.  The Hazara seem to be better described as a confederation of people that share a common culture, language etc. rather than as a specific ethnic group.  The ancient Huns were similar type of confederation that included both Asiatic and Caucasian people.  


Edited by Cryptic - 05-Jun-2008 at 20:12
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 02:46
Naimani, please give a link for the picture you posted. Thanks.
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Posts: 36 		  Quote Naimani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 02:05
Originally posted by Afghanan

There is no doubt some remnants of the original people remain in the blood of Hazaras, but that would also be the case for Tajiks, and even Pashtuns. 


Chingis Khan was a Borjigin. And there are thousands and thousands of them in Besud, Hazarajat.

In Asia 1/10 person is genetically linked to Mongols lol very naughty empire.
Rogho da taye aash khaw namumana!
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Posts: 36 		  Quote Naimani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 02:00
Originally posted by Cryptic

But then, the Hazaras are Shia Muslims, is there any relation between their sect and their origins?


In Hazara case, religion doesn't play any role in their origin. We have a village in Hazarajat called Shash-Par, its pretty small. Shash-Par people are Sayed-Arabs who believe their are children of Shia-Imams from Arabistan. Thats about it!
Rogho da taye aash khaw namumana!
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2008 at 18:15
The Buddha statues were built during the Ephtalite Period in Afghanistan, who ironically enough, in the beginnings of their invasion, hated Buddhism. 
 
When the Ephtalites were defeated by a joint Sassanian-Turk assault, The Ephtalites scattered across Afghanistan into Pakistan/India, Iran, and the Central Asian steppe. 
 
WHen Chenghiz Khan came, the area was under a Turkic-Iranian leadership, and the inhabitants either fled or were massacred.  There is no doubt some remnants of the original people remain in the blood of Hazaras, but that would also be the case for Tajiks, and even Pashtuns.
 
 
 
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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