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Topic ClosedALEXANDER, where should I start with the

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: ALEXANDER, where should I start with the
    Posted: 05-May-2006 at 16:21
Originally posted by yazzmode621

What I find funny about all of this is Alexander is Macedonian NOT Greek.  Alexander and his Macedonian army fought against Greeks and Persians. 

Macedonians were not/are not Greeks.  They are not today nor were they in ancient times. 

Originally posted by genseric

Another guy trying to rewrite history.  The Macedonians were a foreign people who dressed similiar to Celts.  The Greeks considered them brutes and barbarians.  The Macedonians invaded and crushed Greece and then adopted Greek culture.  It was a long time ago but it happened.

If were not Greeks why then Persians called them Yauna Takabara as called and the rest of the Greeks (Yuana) ?



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2006 at 13:36
Originally posted by genseric

Another guy trying to rewrite history.  The Macedonians were a foreign people who dressed similiar to Celts.  The Greeks considered them brutes and barbarians.  The Macedonians invaded and crushed Greece and then adopted Greek culture.  It was a long time ago but it happened.


Are you sure that the Macedonians were dressed similar to the Celts?I was under the misconception that they were dressed similar to the Neanderthals,they roamed the countyside and were beating the civilised people to death with  clubs


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2006 at 12:56

Originally posted by genseric

Another guy trying to rewrite history.  The Macedonians were a foreign people who dressed similiar to Celts.  The Greeks considered them brutes and barbarians.  The Macedonians invaded and crushed Greece and then adopted Greek culture.  It was a long time ago but it happened.

Exactly.  But you will never here these Western/Pro-Greek sources telling you this.  According to them, they WERE Greek(which is ridiculous!)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2006 at 10:58
Another guy trying to rewrite history.  The Macedonians were a foreign people who dressed similiar to Celts.  The Greeks considered them brutes and barbarians.  The Macedonians invaded and crushed Greece and then adopted Greek culture.  It was a long time ago but it happened.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2006 at 07:35
Originally posted by yazzmode621

 Macedonians were not/are not Greeks.  They are not today nor were they in ancient times. 

I will never stop to fight agaist it.

obviusly you support you opion by basic the term Nation in a gene/blood base. I am sorry but people with such ideas brought too much pain in the world.

 Nations are base in common languadge, religion (when we talk about nations in the past) and a common sense of we are the same.

 Like it or not the macedonias in the historical time that we talk about have: The same languadge with greeks, the same religion andthe same common sense that they are the same with the others greeks. So why aren't greeks????

 I really can't understant some dudes that believe a "scientist' that claim: macedonias wasn't greeks because in their Y chromosom they have a different gene......

 Pure stupinity, isn't it...



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When the heart is cold, there's no hope, and we know
That I am crippled by all that you've done
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2006 at 07:04
Originally posted by Iranian41ife

Originally posted by Digenis

well
1)Plutarch -i wrote it.

i need a source, i can make up a quote without posting a source too. i need proof.

Well,it would be useful,before judging all Alexander had done in his life,to READ omething by the sources,such as Plutarch ,Arrian !

I m sure there are many good libraries in Iran.

Then we can discuss about Alexander in a more serious way.

Originally posted by Digenis

2)The cities founded in Scythia,Gedrosia,Arachosia etc.brought civilization there .
The hellenistic era -with the empires of Seleucids,Ptolemeyes,The Greek kingdom of Bactria - was an era of progress for science,literature and philosophy.

are you kidding me? the sogdian kingdom, the bactrian kingdom, all of these were around even before the achaemenid empire got founded! there was civilisation there!

and how dare you say the selucids brought civilisation. while you europeans were in your caves and mud huts the elamites, persians, medeans, sumerians, etc... were living in cities and palaces.

There was civilization in the East of course-

But u re trying to present Alexander as Attila (!) ,or other nomad warlords that the only thing the y ve done was destroying civilization.

Alexander had commited slaughters-i dont believe in a "ideal Alexander" !- sometimes acting with a programm-in order the other cities to surrunder willingly,sometimes acting like a teenager.

But obviously,Alexanderwas the man who  visioned and in a way founded the Hellenistic civilization -causing a bloom of science and philosophy in the east,strenghten and spread the classical Greece achievements.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2006 at 06:51
Originally posted by yazzmode621

What I find funny about all of this is Alexander is Macedonian NOT Greek.  Alexander and his Macedonian army fought against Greeks and Persians. 

Macedonians were not/are not Greeks.  They are not today nor were they in ancient times. 



yes...now turn by the other side and sleep well...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 20:19

What I find funny about all of this is Alexander is Macedonian NOT Greek.  Alexander and his Macedonian army fought against Greeks and Persians. 

Macedonians were not/are not Greeks.  They are not today nor were they in ancient times. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 19:17

Originally posted by Digenis

well
1)Plutarch -i wrote it.

i need a source, i can make up a quote without posting a source too. i need proof.

Originally posted by Digenis


2)The cities founded in Scythia,Gedrosia,Arachosia etc.brought civilization there .
The hellenistic era -with the empires of Seleucids,Ptolemeyes,The Greek kingdom of Bactria - was an era of progress for science,literature and philosophy.

are you kidding me? the sogdian kingdom, the bactrian kingdom, all of these were around even before the achaemenid empire got founded! there was civilisation there!

and how dare you say the selucids brought civilisation. while you europeans were in your caves and mud huts the elamites, persians, medeans, sumerians, etc... were living in cities and palaces.

dont talk to us about civilisation. if anything, alexander should have brought civilisation to europe form the east, because besides greeks, there was no other european civilisation.

Originally posted by Digenis


3)comparing attila with the student of Aristotle proves ignorance.

both were conqueres were they not? if alexander is a hero for conquering then so should attila.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 18:39
well
1)Plutarch -i wrote it.
2)The cities founded in Scythia,Gedrosia,Arachosia etc.brought civilization there .
The hellenistic era -with the empires of Seleucids,Ptolemeyes,The Greek kingdom of Bactria - was an era of progress for science,literature and philosophy.
3)comparing attila with the student of Aristotle proves ignorance.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 18:19

Originally posted by Digenis



1) "Alexander had light skin, blond hair,and melting blue eyes.."
Plutarch -Alexander


Ok, i suppose ancient historians are not among "all logical" people.

your source?

Originally posted by Digenis



2)Alexanders propaganda-and partially true -was firstly that he was bringing freedom to the Greek cities of Asia -and revenge for the Persian Invasion in Greece.

he wasnt bringing freedom to anyone, he was conquering them, just like he conquered the greek city states, and savagly kept them under his control.

alexander destroyed democracy in greece, he wasnt a friend to the other greek cities, he was trying to conquer them all, just the same as he was trying to do with persia.

Originally posted by Digenis


And accept it or not the cities he founded brought civilization to the far eastern areas of his empire.

how dare you talk to us about civilisation?

alexander destroyed civilisation, he didnt bring it.

Originally posted by Digenis



3)both

the destruction of countless persian texts and the burning of perspolis.

the movie just made him look like a hero, when in reality there is nothing heroic about him.

if he is a hero than so is ghenghis khan, attila the hun, etc...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 18:12
Originally posted by Iranian41ife

Originally posted by Digenis



1)Alexander's hair color is not certain.Most claim that it was fairy blond,others mainly based on Pompey's "battle of Issos" mosaic claim that it was brown/black.

the blond hair thing is western propaganda that came up in western films depicting the white man conquering the orients and stuff like that.

most logical people know his hair was black/brown.

Originally posted by Digenis



2)Yes he was-either he really was or it was just propaganda.

no he wasnt, infact, he destroyed democracy in greece before he went on his campaign in Persia.

Originally posted by Digenis



3)like what ?

the good things or the bad things?



1) "Alexander had light skin, blond hair,and melting blue eyes.."
Plutarch -Alexander

Ok, i suppose ancient historians are not among "all logical" people.

2)Alexanders propaganda-and partially true -was firstly that he was bringing freedom to the Greek cities of Asia -and revenge for the Persian Invasion in Greece.
And accept it or not the cities he founded brought civilization to the far eastern areas of his empire.

3)both
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 18:12

Originally posted by Aegipan

Like it or not is the most historical accurate movie about Alexander ever made. Almost every scene is taken from ancient historical books - even the scene with Bagoas.  The bold view of Alexander's bisexualy for me is a plus

lol, accurate with some propaganda and and some classical western bias thrown in.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 18:09
Like it or not is the most historical accurate movie about Alexander ever made. Almost every scene is taken from ancient historical books - even the scene with Bagoas.  The bold view of Alexander's bisexualy for me is a plus
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 17:56

Originally posted by Digenis



1)Alexander's hair color is not certain.Most claim that it was fairy blond,others mainly based on Pompey's "battle of Issos" mosaic claim that it was brown/black.

the blond hair thing is western propaganda that came up in western films depicting the white man conquering the orients and stuff like that.

most logical people know his hair was black/brown.

Originally posted by Digenis



2)Yes he was-either he really was or it was just propaganda.

no he wasnt, infact, he destroyed democracy in greece before he went on his campaign in Persia.

Originally posted by Digenis



3)like what ?

the good things or the bad things?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 17:37
Originally posted by Iranian41ife

no the movie was highly inaccurate:

1) alexander did not have blonde hair and blue eyes.

2) alexander was not trying to spread democracy and freedom

3) the movie only showed the "good" things alexander did.



1)Alexander's hair color is not certain.Most claim that it was fairy blond,others mainly based on Pompey's "battle of Issos" mosaic claim that it was brown/black.

2)Yes he was-either he really was or it was just propaganda.

3)like what ?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 17:19

no the movie was highly inaccurate:

1) alexander did not have blonde hair and blue eyes.

2) alexander was not trying to spread democracy and freedom

3) the movie only showed the "good" things alexander did.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 16:40
Originally posted by Kamran the Great

did anyone else find it hilarious that the Persians spoke English with an accent, but the Greeks spoke perfect fluent English ???



Have you ever played "Rome Total War"?
There all the other ancient people (Greeks,Parthians,ETC)  speak with funny accent, when Romans speak english like John Rambo

Always the "good guys" speak like "us"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 16:39
I agree with Digenis.The film is very ACCURATE

Except for the parts with Hephestion and Bagoas,the film was not boring.Especially the battle of Gaugamela has become my favorite battle in cinema.I can't stop watching this battle.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2006 at 16:34
come on!!!
I think that Alexander was by far the most historical accurate film hollywood presented-and i dont think there could be smth more accurate.

If anyone here had read ancient sources ,he could recognize huge parts of the script were just a transcription from the ancient writers!!

Ok,we could find some accuracies ,-like black Roxani(anyway she had a magnificent body) - but these are of minor significance.

I found the film boring-except Gaugamela battle which i think was the most exciting ancient battle i have ever seen.
But the main failure ,ithink,was the fail to present the real vision of Alexander.
The film was concentrated on his relationship with Hephaistion- i dont deny it of course-but Alexander was far more things than that-Good and Bad things..
And the man was always desperate,a mom's boy !

Anyway..although as a total i didnt like the film,i think only documentaries (and not all) can reach its accuracy.


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